Big brain evolution: Evidence of trading 300,000 years ago (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 11:47 (269 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: Artefacts are the material implementation of concepts. They will “quickly appear” once the brain is able to give them material form. If that requires brain and skull expansion (pre-sapiens), then you won’t see them until the brain and skull have ALREADY expanded, and so the appearance of the artefacts cannot tell us which of our hypotheses is true.

DAVID: My bold in your answer is right on the issue. Of course, the artifacts appear after the brain is enlarged. What it doesn't tell us is when concepts appear. The existing size and complexity of neuron networks is the material side of the interface between brain and s/s/c and in my view gives the s/s/c more in depth thought capacity.

When concepts appear is indeed the issue between us. All the evidence we have points to the conclusion that thought changes the brain – whether in complexity or in size. But once a concept has been realized (and the brain has complexified or enlarged), of course the s/s/c will have greater "thought capacity" – because it can build on existing, and now materialized concepts! The s/s/c learns from experience, and that is an ongoing process, but the concept always has to precede the implementation, and that is what causes expansion/complexification.

DAVID: After all IQ varies from 60 to 200+, so a large part of the range must represent the brain's competence/ability to handle s/s/c thought. With this in mind advanced concepts require an advanced complexity in brain size and structure. Size first concepts second.

The competence of the brain to HANDLE thought is the whole point! If the thought is too complex for the existing brain to HANDLE, then the brain is required to make changes, i.e. complexify or expand. The concept creates the need for expansion (dualism). But you the dualist keep arguing that expansion creates the ability to conceive (materialism).

DAVID: Your problem, as I see it, is your insistence upon what you think drives evolution. I see complexity while you see improvement. The nuance you miss is bacteria have never needed improvement, so multicellularity is from complexity drive, nothing more.

This is a totally different subject, already dealt with repeatedly. We are talking specifically about brain enlargement, and you insist that your God enlarged the pre-sapiens brain before it was able to come up with new concepts, i.e. the brain is the source of thought. And that is a complete contradiction of your dualistic belief that the s/s/c is the source of thought.

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