Big brain evolution: our mutation rate is slowing (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, January 28, 2019, 14:58 (2124 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Your objection is illogical. I start with the premise God runs evolution. To evolve us He used that method so it must be His choice of action. You don't start with my premise so you keep disagreeing.

dhw: It is not a fact that God even exists, but for the sake of argument I have accepted your basic premise that he does and that he created life and the mechanisms for evolution. So of course evolution is his choice of method, but again and again I ask “method to do what?” and your answer is that 1) he is in full control, 2) he specially designed millions of life forms, lifestyles and natural wonders over 3.5+ billion years, and 3) this was his method of designing 4) the only thing he wanted to design, which was H. sapiens. It is the combination of these four fixed beliefs that is illogical.

None of them is illogical if they are based on my initial premise that God's initial purpose was to create humans. Your (4) is unrealistic. God knew He had lots of designing to do if He used evolution to create humans. I don't understand the bolded question. To me it is clear God wanted to create humans as an end goal. You don't accept that so we differ and will continue. You obviously don't view God as I do as an agnostic.

DAVID: Once again you have accepted a Biblical version of an all-powerful God. I don't have to explain why He chose evolution. With unlimited power, He always could have made a choice.

dhw: I have not accepted ANY version. It is you who keep insisting that only one version is correct, and that is why your combined hypotheses are illogical. I have offered you two alternatives in which your God is NOT in full control (his purpose was to create a self-aware being but he didn’t know how to do it; or the self-aware being came late on in his thinking). But if he is in full control, with unlimited power, then (another theistic alternative) it was not his one and only purpose from the beginning to produce H. sapiens, but he chose to create a process that would run itself and produce an ever changing and often unexpected spectacle.

Another example that you do not view God as I do.

dhw: But the spectacle began long, long before we even existed. Are you saying that he didn’t watch what you believe to have been all his special designs with interest? If you think he might be interested in the “unexpected”, wouldn’t it also be interesting for him to give evolution itself a free rein to see what unexpected forms of life might evolve? Why would he specially design 3.5+ billion years' worth of innovations, lifestyles and natural wonders if they were of no interest to him?

DAVID: Back to your same unanswerable questions. I'm sure He watches everything He created, like an artist enjoying his own paintings.

dhw: Thank you for the image. It is you are now using the word “enjoy”. Since you are sure, perhaps you will stop ridiculing the idea that the history of evolution is that of a spectacle in itself, as opposed to serving no purpose other than to provide 3.5+ billion years of food until your God could specially design the only thing he wanted to design.

You still want God equivalent to a human spectator. Of course I have to comment about Him in human equivalents when you raise questions about Him in a human way.