Big brain evolution: changes in sapiens skull shape (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 10:57 (982 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If the software (soul/self/consciousness) does the thinking and the hardware (brain) does the implementing, you cannot argue that the soul cannot THINK without the brain. Your prime evidence for your dualism is NDEs, in which the soul THINKS without the brain.
DAVID: My idea is that the s/s/c works in two ways and perhaps with two mechanisms, one which must interface with the brain (in life) and an other which is in the afterlife (death or non-functional brain) and independent

There can be no question that in life the dualist's s/s/c must interface with the brain, and if there is an afterlife, then the s/s/c will live on without the material mechanisms that have provided it with material information and with material implementation. The afterlife "experience" (NDEs) is regarded by dualists as evidence that in earthly life the s/s/c does the thinking and the brain does the implementing, as you keep agreeing. So why do you also keep insisting that the s/s/c cannot think without the brain? (You may be right – but that is MATERIALISM, which you reject. For more, see “addendum”.)

DAVID (later in the post): I am firmly a dualist. My material body can only sense my s/s/c if my brain is functional. You can follow my reasoning if you accept the concept that our consciousness is a quantum state mechanism that is part of God's universal consciousness. In that way consciousness mechanism is material (quanta) construction but its thoughts are immaterial. I'm agreeing with Penrose.

dhw: Phew! At least I was able to understand your hardware/software analogy, demonstrating the clear division between thinking soul and implementing hardware. But I have no idea what a “quantum state mechanism” is or how it works in your hypothesis. Please tell us whether you think this quantum state mechanism is part of the brain or part of the soul, and whether it survives the death of the brain in the afterlife you believe in. Do you think God’s consciousness is a quantum state mechanism, or does it exist independently of quanta? Please forgive my ignorance.

DAVID: Since quantum mechanics is the base state of the universe it represents God's universal consciousness. S/s/c quantum state discussed above. Fact: experiments such as delayed choice indicate consciousness is intimately related to quamtum states.

In dualism it is the s/s/c that does the thinking and the brain that provides information and gives material expression to thought, regardless of quantum mechanics. Fact: you have not told me whether you think this quantum mechanism is part of the brain or part of the soul, whether it survives the death of the brain, and whether your God’s consciousness is a quantum state.


DAVID: First, I agree that common descent theory appears to be true, but not by any Darwin mechanism. I insist that God logically arranged for speciation, and that minor modifications way have occurred without His direct intervention, but through built-in guided mechanisms.

I also accept the common descent theory and am sceptical about Darwin’s mechanisms. Your insistence that God logically arranged for speciation – presumably as opposed to giving organisms the means to speciate without his dabbling (direct intervention) or a 3.8-billion-year old computer programme (built-in guided mechanisms) – is on a par with an atheist’s insistence that there is no God. Of course both of you have every right to insist that your opinions are correct, but it is no way to conduct a rational debate.

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