Big brain evolution: changes in sapiens skull shape;addendum (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, March 09, 2018, 10:27 (2449 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: But we do know the areas of brain activity that control functions of the body! For example we know the motor area where every part of the body has its represented parts of the bodies muscles. […]

dhw: We know what does what in some areas, but we don’t know HOW! Explain to me HOW thought takes place, and HOW thought directs the materials of the brain.

DAVID: That is the miraculous part of the consciousness God gave us. We know where issues are handled but not how thought is produced.

So I’m afraid your focus on where issues are handled is irrelevant to our discussion. According to dualists, the s/s/c and not the prefrontal cortex does the thinking, and so it makes no sense for a dualist to say that the s/s/c can’t THINK without the prefrontal cortex.

DAVID: Once the cortex using the s/s/c conceives of a flint tip idea, which may involve complexification of the neuronal web and shrinkage of the cortex, implementation involves eye hand coordination with teaching the muscles and arm in hammering and shaping, a job which is controlled in the cerebellum. The cerebellum was enlarged to its present size back in Erectus times. No evidence for your theory.

dhw: So now you have the cortex responsible for conceptions and using the s/s/c! We know what implementation involves: namely, the brain giving material expression to the thought. So once again, please tell us what came up with the thought, and how instructions were passed on to the implementing sections of the brain. I have no idea why you think the cortex shrunk. On 6 March you told us: “I have shown you implementation occurs in areas that did not enlarge as the cortex did.” (My bold) Please clarify which areas of the pre-sapiens brain expanded and which did not.

DAVID: The limbic area, the cerebellum, and the areas from the middle (motor strip) to the back where vision is handled were developed first. As pre-sapiens developed, the major growth in size was the frontal area, specifically with Erectus and later the pre-frontal cortex really exploded as we arrived.

Thank you. This fits in perfectly with the dualistic hypothesis that initially the concepts thought up by the pre-sapiens s/s/c caused expansion of the implementing areas of the brain, but as concepts became more complex, the pfc itself as the material link between immaterial thought and material implementation also had to expand. In both cases, the expansion can be interpreted dualistically as a RESPONSE to concepts, not as their source (= materialistically)

DAVID: You keep separating s/s/c and brain. You can't.

dhw: […] the immaterial s/s/c works together with the material brain, but they have different functions, and you are the one who separates them in NDEs, which are your evidence for DUALISM. The s/s/c and material body are TWO, not one, whereas materialists believe in ONE: namely there is no such thing as an immaterial self.
DAVID: Yes

Thank you. Dualists separate s/s/c and brain,using NDEs as evidence, which means that the s/s/c does not depend on the brain for its ability to THINK.

Dhw: So Einstein would still be a genius in an afterlife even without his prefrontal cortex.
DAVID: Of course, You’ve gotten my concept.
dhw: And so when you tell us that intelligence “springs from the s/s/c being able to use an advanced brain” you’ve forgotten your concept.
DAVID: Not so. Only in life with a brain to use.

If intelligence survives the death of the brain, it is absurd to say that it “springs from” the ability to use the brain. According to dualism, intelligence is what USES the brain, it is not the product of its use of the brain!

dhw: If you insist that you cannot THINK without a material brain, you are a materialist. Currently you not a double dualist, you are a dualist/materialist.

DAVID: The NDE shows the s/s/c can function without a brain IN death, not in life.

Once more: In life the s/s/c “functions” as the thinking self which uses the material self to cope with the material world. NDEs appear to show that the thinking self survives the death of the material self, and that is why it is used as evidence for DUALISM – namely that mind and body are TWO different things. Therefore it is a complete contradiction to argue that the s/s/c or mind cannot THINK without the body/material brain. It simply cannot translate its thoughts into materiality without the brain.