Big brain evolution: changes in sapiens skull shape (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, February 10, 2018, 20:57 (2476 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Saturday, February 10, 2018, 21:02

DAVID: I really feel I have blank periods.

dhw: You can have as many blanks as you like, but if you are only aware of your thoughts when you speak to someone or write them down, as you claimed, you have a problem!

At times I speak to me, but I can be totally unproductive of thought and just observing.

DAVID (under “multicellularity”): […] I am material and I can only approach my s/s/c when I start to think. I can only use my brain to make contact with my s/s/c. I=s s/s/c. You and I cannot get around the material brain is the gateway to the s/s/c.

DAVID: You are confused. I'm never aware of my s/s/c unless my brain is functional, as per NDE's.

dhw: Now you say your self is never aware of your self unless your brain is functional, but in NDEs the brain is NOT functional and yet the self is aware of itself, and afterwards reveals its experiences to the brain. That is why NDEs provide evidence for dualism. You agreed at the top of this post, and now you disagree.

According to Eben Alexander in his book he was totally an observer and had lost sense of self or memory of himself. "Self is aware of self" does not fit his experience. You are making assumptions. All of the material I have read presents a picture of the s/s/c while separate simply observing and receiving information. We've agreed I can only work with my s/s/c when my brain functions

DAVID: My thinking is done by my s/s/c using my brain as hardware.

dhw: The s/s/c (software) does the thinking, and uses the brain (hardware) to give material expression to the thoughts.

DAVID: In NDE's the s/s/c observes and receives information. There is no information that the s/s/c thinks during an NDE.

dhw: What are you saying? That during the NDE patients are not aware of what they are experiencing? And yet when they return to the body they remember everything that happened and inform the brain about it!

I keep repeating. The s/s/c is a receiver of information in an NDE and when reattached to a functional brain the patient then learns about the experience.

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DAVID: In NDE's the s/s/c may only receive information, not form concepts.

dhw: I don’t know if this is true, but in any case, forming concepts is not the only way of being aware of your self.

Alexander wites he was not aware of self during the experience.

dhw: Every development in the evolution of Homo shows that the larger brain coincides with more complex artefacts. History can’t show us that the brain expanded BEFORE the artefacts were produced, which is your hypothesis.

You cannot get around the fact that more advanced artifacts only appear when we find a hominin with a larger brain present.

dhw: We know the brain complexifies through and not before the implementation of new concepts, so it’s feasible that the same applied to expansion[/i].

You are struggling. The only sceintific fact we have is brain shrinkage with new uses. The rest of your theory is all conjecture with no basis.

DAVID: Except complexity shrinks brains!

dhw:Explained over and over again: in pre-humans, brain reaches point where greater capacity necessary (same in your own hypothesis, so no disagreement there); in modern humans, expansion not possible; complexification so efficient that it shrinks brain.

Again an unproven leap of faith. How do we know only modern humans had shrinking brains with new implementations? Evolution builds on past methods and advances. Complexity from new uses very likely occurred in past hominins with some brain shrinkage.

dhw: I can’t improve on the description of implementation that you wrote yourself under “Learning new tasks”, 2 December, but later wanted to rewrite: “If habilis has an idea for spears, the idea is immaterial. No brain change. Once he learns to knapp flint, attach the stone point to a wooden rod, and then practices throwing it with accuracy, there is no question his brain has enlarged with all the muscle movement and visual coordination involved”.

DAVID: My statement always meant 'prior enlargement'. I've never changed my concept.

dhw: You asked me to describe what implementation entailed, and your account is as clear a description as possible. Immaterial idea first. NO BRAIN CHANGE. New activities, brain “has enlarged” with all the movement etc. involved. I know you wish you hadn’t written it, but that’s not the point. It’s the perfect description of what implementation entails according to my hypothesis.

Way do you think I constantly deny your theory as anything reasonable? I don't wish anything of the sort about not writing it. I obviously mistyped my thought which was that only an enlarged brain could create the new artifacts and implementations. I've never changed my underlying concept and now you have implied I'm not feeling truthful about my true theories. Frankly I was confused when you offered the quote I had written. I saw how it appeared in the wrong way for my meaning, and in haste I must have written it that way and did not re-read to copy edit myself to be sure it was correct as written. I admit I do this in haste at times when other duties at the ranch are calling me.