Big brain evolution: changes in sapiens skull shape;addendum (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Saturday, February 24, 2018, 14:49 (293 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The only studies available to tell us where different parts of our conscious thinking resides is from methodological materialist scientists. Your point is obvious.

dhw: “Resides” is an interesting concept. I hope it means that neuroscience shows us which parts of the brain are associated with which activities, but I thought we knew that long ago. My “obvious” point is that if, as you claim, the brain is only a RECEIVER of thought, you cannot use the findings of neurologists as evidence that the soul depends on a functioning material brain for its ability to THINK. (NDEs are used by dualists as evidence that it does not.) Once more: for a dualist the s/s/c does the thinking and the brain provides information and expresses/implements the thought. You keep agreeing and then trying to disagree.

My use of the word receives is that we receive the software of s/s/c. In the other sense, the functioning human brain receives thought specific areas of the brain.

DAVID: I have a different view: the human brain development is part of the embryology leading to an adult form from birth. At an average 25 that development is complete. As above, of course the prefrontal area responds to the rest of one's life and modifies.

dhw: I have pointed out to you that expression/implementation of immaterial thought CAUSES changes in the material brain (disregarding material changes caused by external influences such as disease, drugs etc., which are evidence for materialism) – the exact opposite of your theory that changes in the brain PRECEDE immaterial thought. You reply by telling me that the development of the brain is complete by 25, although it continues to change. This is a contradiction in terms, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the argument you say you disagree with!

Developmental completion is a simple concept: your Volkswagen came from the factory completely constructed (developed). You the added a few aftermarket refinements. Same car with some adaptations. I view the prefrontal cortex the same way. And from the standpoint of immaterial thought, way do adolescents have judgmental problems until that development is complete?


dhw: …you who keep insisting that thought depends on a fully functioning pre-frontal cortex. If you now agree that the s/s/c does the thinking, the brain provides information and expresses/implements the thoughts of the s/s/c, the brain changes as a result of implementing the concepts, wishes, emotions, ideas etc. of the s/s/c, thought therefore comes before brain change, and consequently it is absurd for a dualist to argue that the brain has to expand before the s/s/c can THINK new thoughts, then we will have agreed on how the s/s/c and the brain work together.

DAVID: We will never be together on this point. The brain provides the substrate or mechanics for thought. s/s/c is the immaterial software.

dhw: More obfuscation. The “mechanics for thought” could mean that the brain is the mechanism enabling thought or the mechanism used by thought to implement itself. Why do you keep changing the terms, when you have already agreed so many times that the s/s/c is the source of thought, and the brain provides information and expresses/implements the thoughts of the s/s/c. The latter is the software (thought) and the brain is the hardware (implementation). The rest follows as I have explained above, which I would ask you to reread. We will never be together on this point so long as you keep trying to avoid the implications of your own beliefs.

I don't know why you are so confused. The brain is a computer and the s/s/c is its software. That is what I said in the comment before your long paragraph.


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