Biological complexity: managing cellular oxygen levels (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, October 22, 2019, 11:03 (1640 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: This means that organisms are aware of existing dangers, learn from experience, find ways of combating the dangers they know exist, and these ways are passed on by cellular memory to subsequent generations. No crystal ball necessary. […]

DAVID: The only consciousness I'll agree to for insects is that they are obviously aware of their environment and can react to it. Most of what they do is pure instinct as in monarchs metamorphosing and migrating and nothing more.

dhw: I’m happy with “most of what they do”. The same applies to all organisms, including ourselves – or do you consciously control every single process that takes place in your body? You simply refuse to accept that all the processes and decisions and variations and behaviours and strategies must have had an origin. If problems created by the environment have been solved in the past, the solutions will be passed on (in ALL forms of life, including our own). That is your “most of”. If they are new, then new solutions must be found - and that is where consciousness comes into play. All summed up in the bold at the start of this post, which you grudgingly accept and then try to brush aside..

DAVID: I'm glad you accept automatic instinct. whose origin is not understood.

Of course I accept automatic instinct. All organisms, including ourselves, function through automatic processes. That is your “most of what they do”. Now would you please accept that the rest of what they do, such as responding intelligently to new conditions, learning from experience, finding ways of combating existing dangers and passing solutions on to subsequent generations, are all evidence of consciousness.