Biological complexity: feedback loops are vital (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, September 27, 2019, 22:38 (1884 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I'll remind you, the intelligent responses are in my view all automatic, because of the quality of the information.

d hwK: What information are you talking about? The information which you now agree is not intelligent, or the information which you now agree doesn’t function? Stop tying yourself in knots with “information” and stick to the fact that you believe every single intelligent response was either divinely preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago to be passed on by the very first cells, or was directly dabbled by your God.

you still don't understand the meaning of 'intelligent information'. It is a carefully set of instructions for the organisms to follow. Information is not active, as you note, but the organisms c an use it to activate processes.

DAVID (re “stromatolites”): If it is agreed this is acceptable evidence, then life was certainly on Earth very early, considering that the Earth formed about 4.5 byo and is considered to have been too hot of life at 4 byo. These appear to be organized organisms, advanced beyond what simple early life may have looked like.

dhw: Very interesting. I like your use of the word “organized”. Here we seem to have the beginnings of the cooperation between cells which forms the whole basis of evolution.

DAVID: Each cell is alive and fully organized, no more.

dhw: If organized cells bunched together, why do you ignore cooperation?

I agree. As in bacterial mats cells will function somewhat differently, but each cell has its own c omplete internal organization

dhw: I don’t think every “attacker” or “infection” was present at the beginning of life. Perhaps it might be more accurate to propose that the first cells were provided with the intelligence to adapt themselves to new conditions as and when they arose. Immune systems would therefore have developed enormously over time as they worked out ways to combat new threats but also preserved ways of combating old threats, just as single-celled bacteria do.

DAVID: But the immune cells have to be given a way to code future responses. They can't invent those mechanisms by themselves on the fly while being attacked as attackers evolve. They must have had the basic mechanism from the beginning of life given to them by God.

dhw: Precisely. Thank you for once more accepting the theistic version of my hypothesis. The way to respond as attackers evolve is provided by a basic mechanism which must have been there from the beginning – and possibly given to them by your God. I have called it cellular intelligence. What do you call it?

DAVID: An appropriate mechanism provided by God.

d hw: I’ve already allowed for “provided by God”. So you call the basic mechanism an appropriate mechanism. Obviously it’s appropriate since it works!

Yes, it works. agreed.