Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, May 08, 2016, 13:01 (3121 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: How do you gauge purpose without reading the mind? As regards a purpose behind the drive for complexity, you have again rejected my alternative, which is the drive for survival and improvement.
DAVID: I think a result gives purpose: humans here against all odds =s purposeful result. Deciding a mind must be behind it, a secondary conclusion. A drive to complexity =s survival and improvement, no Darwin involved which is the basis of your thought.-Yes, humans are here, as are millions of other organisms, and 99% of all organisms have disappeared, every one having been against the odds. I think it is very reasonable to attribute the complexity of life to a mind. (My arguments against the existence of God approach the subject from a different direction.) But is it reasonable to conclude that the mind specially created all those organisms extant and extinct in order to produce/feed humans? Is it not just as reasonable to conjecture that the mind wanted to see what would happen if it created an autonomous mechanism to do all the inventing? (But perhaps allowed itself the occasional dabble?)
I don't understand what you mean by “no Darwin involved”. Darwin's common descent (but not random mutations) is basic to my thinking. Did you mean “no God involved”? A God who invents a self-directing toy is just as “involved” as a God who invents a toy that only he can direct.
 
dhw: I may as well ask you how many scientists believe in divine preprogramming or personal intervention for every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder in evolutionary history.
DAVID: There are many hundreds of doctors in an organization called "physicians against Darwin", to which I once sold books (about 2002).-What does “against Darwin” mean? Are they against common descent or only against random mutations? Are they all Creationists? How many of them specifically argue that God preprogrammed or “guided” every step in evolution?-dhw: I accept all your arguments relating to complexity, and your posts - as well as your books - on this and other related subjects have been an ongoing education for me, for which I shall always be grateful. So there are still plenty of bridges, even if they only take me halfway across the theist-atheist gulf!
DAVID: My job when invited to comment on this website was to extend the bridge. I'll keep engineering.-My aim when setting up the website was to get help in delving as deep as possible into all the unsolved mysteries of our existence. No one has been more instrumental than you in fulfilling this aim. No solutions, of course, but the view from my picket fence has been hugely extended!