Biological complexity: feedback loops are vital (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, September 28, 2019, 10:52 (1665 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I'll remind you, the intelligent responses are in my view all automatic, because of the quality of the information.

dhw: What information are you talking about? The information which you now agree is not intelligent, or the information which you now agree doesn’t function? Stop tying yourself in knots with “information” and stick to the fact that you believe every single intelligent response was either divinely preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago to be passed on by the very first cells, or was directly dabbled by your God.

DAVID: you still don't understand the meaning of 'intelligent information'. It is a carefully set of instructions for the organisms to follow. Information is not active, as you note, but the organisms can use it to activate processes.

DAVID (September 25): I agree information is not intelligent, but its source must be. I was writing a sort of shorthand in my response.

And now back you go to your shorthand. We have intelligent information which is not intelligent, and we have functioning information which is not functioning, and now we have intelligent information which is instructions. Why don’t you just use the word instructions instead of faffing about with “information”? And yes, that is another way of saying you believe your God provided the very first cells with instructions or programmes for every bacterial response, organismal innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder in the history of life past, present and future. Meanwhile, I suggest you stick to your excellent last sentence: information is not active (and not intelligent, and not functioning), and it requires the intelligence of organisms to use it. Perfectly simple.

DAVID (re “stromatolites”): If it is agreed this is acceptable evidence, then life was certainly on Earth very early, considering that the Earth formed about 4.5 byo and is considered to have been too hot of life at 4 byo. These appear to be organized organisms, advanced beyond what simple early life may have looked like.

dhw: Very interesting. I like your use of the word “organized”. Here we seem to have the beginnings of the cooperation between cells which forms the whole basis of evolution.

DAVID: Each cell is alive and fully organized, no more.

dhw: If organized cells bunched together, why do you ignore cooperation?

DAVID: I agree. As in bacterial mats cells will function somewhat differently, but each cell has its own complete internal organization,

Precisely: a neat description of how different, autonomous, intelligent cells cooperate to form “mats” and organs and organisms. That is the gist of my hypothesis.