Biological complexity: feedback loops are vital (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, September 26, 2019, 08:45 (1668 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Properly functioning information must be designed by an intelligent mind, which provides meaningful processes in the cell and appropriate responses to challenges. I agree information itself is not intelligent, but its source must be. I was writing a sort of shorthand in my response.

dhw: Not only is information not intelligent, but information doesn’t function

DAVID: Exactly. The organism's responses are guided by the information in its genome which then induces obviously intelligent responses to stimuli by activating a proper mechanism to answer.

Thank you for once more agreeing with me, though in an extraordinarily roundabout fashion. Information is not intelligent and information is not functioning. The “proper mechanism” which provides intelligent responses to stimuli is what we call intelligence.

DAVID: I don't think He made bacteria or cells conscious in the usual way we mean. He gave them intelligently drawn information to use in appropriate ways.

dhw: What is the “usual way we mean”? Intelligence involves conscious use of information. consciousness involves awareness, the ability to process information, to communicate, to make decisions etc., and is not confined to human self-awareness. And yes indeed, if God exists, I agree that he would have supplied it when He started life. Thank you again.

DAVID: It does not have to be conscious responses, but automatic, as you fully understand, but don't want to accept.

No, it does not “have to be”, but it may be. If it is automatic, that means your God must have preprogrammed the first cells with every single undabbled intelligent response to every single situation that would arise then, now and for evermore. However, the responses do not “have to be” automatic but may be conscious, “as you fully understand but don’t want to accept”.

Under "Immunity complexity": "The cells of our immune system constantly communicate with one another by exchanging complex protein molecules. A team has now revealed how dedicated cellular control proteins, referred to as chaperones, detect immature immune signaling proteins and prevent them from leaving the cell."

dhw: Communication and cooperation are the key to survival on all levels of existence.

DAVID: Of course, the exchange in my bold above can all be fully automatic.

Or, of course, can be fully conscious.

DAVID (re “stromatolites”: If it is agreed this is acceptable evidence, then life was certainly on Earth very early, considering that the Earth formed about 4.5 byo and is considered to have been too hot of life at 4 byo. These appear to be organized organisms, advanced beyond what simple early life may have looked like.

Very interesting. I like your use of the word “organized”. Here we seem to have the beginnings of the cooperation between cells which forms the whole basis of evolution.

DAVID: ..the immune system is vital to protect organisms from attack. Proper targets must be identified accurately, and release of antibodies controlled and prompt. This protection must have been designed in the beginning of life as all organisms need ways to block infections

dhw: I don’t think every “attacker” or “infection” was present at the beginning of life. Perhaps it might be more accurate to propose that the first cells were provided with the intelligence to adapt themselves to new conditions as and when they arose. Immune systems would therefore have developed enormously over time as they worked out ways to combat new threats but also preserved ways of combating old threats, just as single-celled bacteria do.

DAVID: But the immune cells have to be given a way to code future responses. They can't invent those mechanisms by themselves on the fly while being attacked as attackers evolve. They must have had the basic mechanism from the beginning of life given to them by God.

Precisely. Thank you for once more accepting the theistic version of my hypothesis. The way to respond as attackers evolve is provided by a basic mechanism which must have been there from the beginning – and possibly given to them by your God. I have called it cellular intelligence. What do you call it?