Biological complexity: managing cellular oxygen levels (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, October 18, 2019, 10:51 (1864 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: My argument is that once a danger has been experienced, either the cell communities devise a means of combating it, or the species dies out. This means that organisms are aware of existing dangers, learn from experience, find ways of combating the dangers they know exist, and these ways are passed on by cellular memory to subsequent generations. (dhw’s bold) No crystal ball necessary.

DAVID: your bold is a possible just-so story. It requires conceptualization, so I don't know if it fully explains the insects' instinctual behavior.

dhw: So at least you now think that the above is possible. That’s progress. Thank you. I accept the cavil that we don’t know if it “fully explains” their behaviour, since nobody has yet found a “full” explanation of how consciousness and speciation work at any level.

DAVID: Not knowing the source of consciousness does't answer the issue of possible precognition of future events.

There is no precognition of future events, as I keep trying to explain.

DAVID (under “water control in trees”): Again you want consciousness in plants, and I don't accept it. Besides you are ignoring how complex the plant design has to be. It didn't develop by chance.

dhw: I don’t “want” it. I see their behaviour as evidence that their actions are dictated by awareness of what they need to do in order to survive and of the means whereby they can do it. I discount chance, and allow for the possibility that the cognitive powers of ALL cell communities may be the result of your God’s invention of cellular intelligence. I find this more likely than the vision of your hidden God individually preprogramming every undabbled strategy of plants, bacteria, insects, fish, birds, and animals throughout the whole history of life, especially in view of your insistence that the only thing he really wanted to design was H. sapiens.

DAVID: God may well have given cells the ability to recognize dangers and also good items. Design by Him fits.

“Design by Him fits” cellular intelligence, i.e. the autonomous means of combating dangers and exploiting good items.

DAVID ( Under "Big brain evolution"): Why are similar genes handled differently and how did that happen? Perhaps God designing. The other difference is the slower speed of growth of human brains compare to chimps. Why did that happen? God in action.

dhw; Yet again, nobody knows the answers, and so we can only speculate: your God preprogrammed every undabbled variation and innovation 3.8 billion years ago (your proposal), or cells/cell communities work out every variation and innovation autonomously (this ability possibly being your God’s invention).

DAVID: Yes, it must be speculation, but the overwhelming evidence for design overcomes that to a marked degree. It keeps you agnostic.

It does indeed. But it doesn’t in any way lessen the incongruity of your preprogramming/dabbling theory allied to your anthropocentric interpretation of the bush of life!