Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, June 01, 2016, 21:22 (3097 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: You have agreed to the possibility that what you call a “free complexity mechanism” allows the bush “to spread as it wishes”, and “God only steps in to dabble”. If so, the mechanism has to be autonomous, which means it has to come up with its own combinations! But yes, theistic version: God is the designer of the autonomous mechanism.-And God, therefore, has put in programs to organize what complexifications are created, probably allowing for outlandish results like whales.
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> dhw; Organisms are cell communities. Once more: If they contain what you call a “free complexity mechanism”, the bush can “spread as it wishes”, and God “only steps in to dabble, which means modify a form or possibly change course”, please explain how the cell communities can cooperate to create the forms although their "free complexity mechanism" does NOT enable them to work these complexities out for themselves.-As stated God programs for complexity.
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> dhw: In any community, there are members that perform different roles. There is therefore no escaping the concept of cellular intelligence. You can of course claim that the all-important switch from unicellularity to multicellularity was the result of a dabble, but sooner or later autonomous cellular intelligence has to take over. Sooner of course = bacterial intelligence.
> DAVID: You are having fun.
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> dhw: Why is this argument not to be taken seriously?-Because cell intelligent responses can be intelligently planned fixed molecular reactions.
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> dhw: Of course these systems respond to biological inputs and involve automatic molecular reactions and feedback loops. Our own intelligence works in the same way. Once we have absorbed and weighed the information and made our decision (non-automatic, unless you believe humans are also automatons), every action we take entails the same processes to implement those decisions. Since you know as well as I do that Shapiro believes in cellular intelligence, as did McClintock, you can hardly claim that three words removed from their context support your hypothesis. But perhaps you are "having fun"!-Yes, fun. I have my point of view developed from my teachings in medical school. Cells are automatic, as are organs such as livers (a cell community). I'd love to interview Shapiro. I think we actually believe the same things.