Biological complexity: cell molecular communication (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, January 29, 2016, 13:44 (3221 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Identifying the type and strength of signals is the equivalent of our perception. The next stage is processing the information received, communicating it to others, and taking a collective decision. All these are hallmarks of intelligence, and not automaticity. Shapiro (like McClintock, Margulis, Buehler etc.) is quite specific in attributing independent intelligence to cells in general and not just bacteria, and this study explicitly describes cooperative, decision-making procedures, as opposed to automatic responses! Thank you for drawing it to our attention.
DAVID: As usual we are having the same battle. If the cells respond as the article states that can be by automatic programmed responses just as well as by your interpretation.-It is not quite the same battle. You claim that the researchers are on your side, and I am claiming them as my allies. The section that requires comment is as follows:
 
QUOTE: "To decide whether and where to move in the body, cells must read chemical signals in their environment. Individual cells do not act alone during this process, two new studies on mouse mammary tissue show. Instead, the cells make decisions collectively after exchanging information about the chemical messages they are receiving.
"Cells talk to nearby cells and compare notes before they make a move," says Ilya Nemenman....-Dhw: If cells were programmed, they would not have to exchange information or “talk” to nearby cells or “compare notes” or, above all, make decisions. The decisions would already have been made for them. -I know you still insist that cells are automatons. My point is that these researchers disagree with you, so please explain how the above MEANS that cells are programmed and therefore do not take their own decisions.-DAVID: Shapiro works with single-celled organisms responsible only to themselves. These are not the same as cells in a multicellular organism where the cells must work with each other in a coordinated fashion which is programmed and controlled. Different cells have different DNA controls.-You also claim that bacteria are automatons. Of course cells in multicellular organisms must work together, but that does not make them automatons. Anyway, we needn't argue about the relevance of Shapiro's research. He has already stated his opinion about the intelligence of cells in the interview I quoted earlier, as have increasing numbers of experts in the field (Bruce Lipton was the latest in the line, see my post of 22 December 2015). We are now arguing about whose side these particular researchers are on. Unless you can explain how processing and exchanging information before making a decision constitutes preprogramming, I would suggest they are on the side of the “intelligent cell” brigade.