Biological complexity: feedback loops are vital (Introduction)
DAVID: ...it is true that older ants teach younger ones and that a leader ant will make a trip-change- in-direction decision, but all the following ants will automatically follow the leader. The colonies' memory is mainly due to the individuals' constant similar responses.
dhw: In all societies there are leaders and followers. That doesn’t mean the leaders and the followers are all automatons! You refuse to acknowledge that every form of behaviour has to have an origin. Once it is established, of course individuals will perpetuate the responses. But the article makes it crystal clear that new decisions are taken every day. If you really think every new decision was preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, so be it.
DAVID: Yes, so be it.
Again, as with your theory of evolution, it’s important to understand exactly what your proposals mean. Let us remember that ants have brains. It appears, however, that you believe every decision made not only by brainless bacteria but also by some organisms (I presume you exclude humans and other large organisms) with brains was preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago, to be passed on by the very first cells. These decisions apply to all the natural wonders you have listed, such as the monarch butterfly’s lifestyle and the weaverbird’s nest, and all stages of the pre-whale’s adaptations to marine life – all laid out in those very first cells, even though your God’s one and only intention was to specially design H. sapiens. You agree that this seems illogical (you have “no idea” why he chose this method), but it is logical so long as we do not apply human logic it. Since you are not prepared to use human reasoning, the discussion could well end there, but it is bound to be reopened whenever you try to justify your preprogramming theory.
Complete thread:
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- Biological complexity: how we smell odors; very well - David Turell, 2020-04-12, 21:27
- Biological complexity: how we smell odors; very well - David Turell, 2021-08-04, 22:55
- Biological complexity: how we smell odors -
David Turell,
2016-05-26, 18:36
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-26, 17:17
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-26, 22:25
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-27, 13:04
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-27, 18:52
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-28, 11:43
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-28, 21:48
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-29, 13:34
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-29, 15:17
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:14
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 14:50
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:23
- Biological complexity: intercellular signalling - David Turell, 2016-05-31, 15:05
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 01:54
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-01, 13:04
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 21:22
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-02, 12:27
- Biological complexity: circadian clocks - David Turell, 2016-06-02, 14:15
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-03, 01:42
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-03, 13:08
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-04, 02:45
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-04, 11:37
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-04, 15:53
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-05, 13:08
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-05, 15:43
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-06, 12:52
- Biological complexity: calcium blood level controls -
David Turell,
2016-06-09, 23:25
- Biological complexity: kidney function is higly complex - David Turell, 2016-06-27, 01:31
- Biological complexity: calcium blood level controls -
David Turell,
2016-06-09, 23:25
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-06, 12:52
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-05, 15:43
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-05, 13:08
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-04, 15:53
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-04, 11:37
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-04, 02:45
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-03, 13:08
- Biological complexity: how to make a whale -
David Turell,
2016-06-30, 02:02
- Biological complexity: automatic breathing controls -
David Turell,
2016-07-05, 18:07
- Biological complexity: cell communication controls -
David Turell,
2016-07-05, 18:21
- Biological complexity: immune cell stem cell cooperation -
David Turell,
2016-07-08, 15:21
- Biological complexity: human male sex function -
David Turell,
2016-07-13, 19:50
- Biological complexity: human male sex function - David Turell, 2019-05-03, 20:49
- Biological complexity: human male sex function -
David Turell,
2016-07-13, 19:50
- Biological complexity: intracellular protein delivery -
David Turell,
2016-08-19, 23:10
- Biological complexity: intracellular protein delivery -
dhw,
2016-08-20, 12:06
- Biological complexity: intracellular protein delivery -
David Turell,
2016-08-20, 16:25
- Biological complexity: how nucleus holds it shape -
David Turell,
2016-08-22, 20:09
- Biological complexity: how vitamin A enters a cell -
David Turell,
2016-08-25, 20:08
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
David Turell,
2016-08-29, 15:54
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
dhw,
2016-08-30, 11:36
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
David Turell,
2016-08-30, 18:58
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
dhw,
2016-08-31, 13:06
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells - David Turell, 2016-08-31, 18:21
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
dhw,
2016-08-31, 13:06
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
David Turell,
2016-08-30, 18:58
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two results -
David Turell,
2016-09-02, 19:09
- Biological complexity: respiratory mitochondrial form -
David Turell,
2016-09-06, 19:20
- Biological complexity: how cells attach or repel -
David Turell,
2016-09-06, 20:40
- Biological complexity: how cells remove garbage -
David Turell,
2016-09-14, 23:57
- Biological complexity: sensory receptors everywhere -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 15:40
- Biological complexity: automatic molecular switches -
David Turell,
2016-09-19, 18:52
- Biological complexity: automatic neuron controls -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 14:54
- Biological complexity: tracking DNA/RNA activity: -
David Turell,
2016-10-03, 14:37
- Biological complexity: Nitrogen fixing -
David Turell,
2016-10-05, 15:26
- Biological complexity: 60 million proteins in a cell -
David Turell,
2016-10-06, 02:32
- Biological complexity: Using micro-nutrient Selenium -
David Turell,
2016-10-06, 18:38
- Biological complexity: Sodium levels and thirst controls -
David Turell,
2016-10-09, 01:53
- Biological complexity: engulfing photosynthesis -
David Turell,
2016-10-10, 20:22
- Biological complexity: evolution of mammalian pregnancy -
David Turell,
2016-10-15, 01:47
- Biological complexity: circadian muscle oxygen use -
David Turell,
2016-10-21, 18:37
- Biological complexity:plants sense light and temperature -
David Turell,
2016-10-28, 00:33
- Biological complexity: how cell structure functions -
David Turell,
2016-11-06, 00:38
- Biological complexity: how cell structure functions -
dhw,
2016-11-06, 13:52
- Biological complexity: how cell structure functions - David Turell, 2016-11-06, 15:02
- Biological complexity: how cell structure functions -
dhw,
2016-11-06, 13:52
- Biological complexity: breathing controls -
David Turell,
2016-11-09, 17:38
- Biological complexity: blood vessel controls -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 01:29
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 22:59
- Biological complexity: describing the nuclear pore - David Turell, 2016-11-12, 20:26
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 00:10
- dhw: Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:21
- dhw: Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 15:59
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:01
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:32
- Biological complexity: complex glucose controls -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 18:34
- Biological complexity: automatic cellular switches - David Turell, 2016-11-15, 00:00
- Biological complexity: complex glucose controls - David Turell, 2019-08-16, 19:00
- Biological complexity: controlled cell death - David Turell, 2019-02-11, 17:22
- Biological complexity: complex glucose controls -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 18:34
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-14, 17:32
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
dhw,
2016-11-14, 12:01
- dhw: Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-13, 15:59
- dhw: Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
dhw,
2016-11-13, 13:21
- Biological complexity: how stressed bacteria go dormant -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 22:59
- Biological complexity: blood vessel controls -
David Turell,
2016-11-11, 01:29
- Biological complexity: how cell structure functions -
David Turell,
2016-11-06, 00:38
- Biological complexity:plants sense light and temperature -
David Turell,
2016-10-28, 00:33
- Biological complexity:pregnancy alters immunity - David Turell, 2017-09-02, 19:35
- Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
David Turell,
2019-11-30, 22:35
- Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-01, 08:52
- Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
David Turell,
2019-12-01, 14:41
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-02, 13:41
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
David Turell,
2019-12-02, 14:42
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-03, 10:43
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war - David Turell, 2019-12-03, 16:19
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-03, 10:43
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
David Turell,
2019-12-02, 14:42
- DAVID: Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-02, 13:41
- Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
David Turell,
2019-12-01, 14:41
- Biological complexity: mammalian pregnancy is a war -
dhw,
2019-12-01, 08:52
- Biological complexity: circadian muscle oxygen use -
David Turell,
2016-10-21, 18:37
- Biological complexity:photosynthesis not understood -
David Turell,
2016-11-21, 20:59
- Biological complexity:one enzyme two hormones -
David Turell,
2016-11-23, 22:23
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-25, 01:15
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-25, 12:21
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-25, 15:44
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-26, 13:03
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-26, 15:39
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-29, 11:26
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-29, 19:16
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-30, 12:16
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-30, 15:29
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-12-01, 13:05
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-01, 18:57
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-02, 10:47
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 01:00
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-03, 13:59
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 14:59
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-04, 12:23
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 17:43
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-05, 14:09
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-05, 17:51
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-06, 10:22
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-06, 10:22
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-05, 17:51
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-05, 14:09
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 17:43
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-04, 12:23
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 14:59
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-03, 13:59
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 01:00
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parasitizes -
dhw,
2016-12-02, 10:47
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-12-01, 18:57
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-12-01, 13:05
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-30, 15:29
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-30, 12:16
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-29, 19:16
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-29, 11:26
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-26, 15:39
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-26, 13:03
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-25, 15:44
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
dhw,
2016-11-25, 12:21
- Biological complexity:how toxoplasmosis parastizes -
David Turell,
2016-11-25, 01:15
- Biological complexity:one enzyme two hormones -
David Turell,
2016-11-23, 22:23
- Biological complexity: evolution of mammalian pregnancy -
David Turell,
2016-10-15, 01:47
- Biological complexity: engulfing photosynthesis -
David Turell,
2016-10-10, 20:22
- Biological complexity: Sodium levels and thirst controls -
David Turell,
2016-10-09, 01:53
- Biological complexity: Using micro-nutrient Selenium -
David Turell,
2016-10-06, 18:38
- Biological complexity: 60 million proteins in a cell -
David Turell,
2016-10-06, 02:32
- Biological complexity: Nitrogen fixing -
David Turell,
2016-10-05, 15:26
- Biological complexity: tracking DNA/RNA activity: -
David Turell,
2016-10-03, 14:37
- Biological complexity: automatic neuron controls -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 14:54
- Biological complexity: automatic molecular switches -
David Turell,
2016-09-19, 18:52
- Biological complexity: sensory receptors everywhere -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 15:40
- Biological complexity: how cells remove garbage -
David Turell,
2016-09-14, 23:57
- Biological complexity: how cells attach or repel -
David Turell,
2016-09-06, 20:40
- Biological complexity: respiratory mitochondrial form -
David Turell,
2016-09-06, 19:20
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
dhw,
2016-08-30, 11:36
- Biological complexity: one receptor, two T cells -
David Turell,
2016-08-29, 15:54
- Biological complexity: how vitamin A enters a cell -
David Turell,
2016-08-25, 20:08
- Biological complexity: how nucleus holds it shape -
David Turell,
2016-08-22, 20:09
- Biological complexity: intracellular protein delivery -
David Turell,
2016-08-20, 16:25
- Biological complexity: intracellular protein delivery -
dhw,
2016-08-20, 12:06
- Biological complexity: immune cell stem cell cooperation -
David Turell,
2016-07-08, 15:21
- Biological complexity: cell communication controls -
David Turell,
2016-07-05, 18:21
- Biological complexity: automatic breathing controls -
David Turell,
2016-07-05, 18:07
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-02, 12:27
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-06-01, 21:22
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-06-01, 13:04
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-31, 13:23
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-30, 14:50
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-30, 09:14
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-29, 15:17
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-29, 13:34
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-28, 21:48
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-28, 11:43
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-27, 18:52
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-27, 13:04
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-26, 22:25
- Biological complexity: how we smell odors -
David Turell,
2016-05-26, 15:53
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-26, 01:40
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-25, 12:56
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-24, 20:16
- Biological complexity: red cell enzyme activity -
David Turell,
2016-05-23, 15:48
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-23, 15:32
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-23, 12:53
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-22, 21:48
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-22, 17:54
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-21, 15:35
- Biological complexity: finding Nucleolus functions -
David Turell,
2016-05-20, 22:21
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-20, 20:26
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-20, 13:17
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-19, 22:54
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-19, 12:42
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-18, 11:45
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-17, 22:03
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-17, 11:50
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-16, 17:39
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-16, 15:58
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-15, 20:02
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-15, 17:46
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
David Turell,
2016-05-14, 14:03
- Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria -
dhw,
2016-05-14, 10:27
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-13, 12:32
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-13, 00:12
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-11, 15:33
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-11, 13:02
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-10, 18:26
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-10, 16:45
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-09, 19:12
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-09, 13:13
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-08, 15:26
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-08, 13:01
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-07, 15:11
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-07, 11:39
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-06, 15:53
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-06, 13:07
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-05, 15:43
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
dhw,
2016-05-05, 12:19
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-05-04, 16:23
- Biological complexity: photosynthesis -
David Turell,
2016-02-27, 15:32
- Biological complexity: more cell pore complexity -
David Turell,
2016-02-24, 21:53
- Biological complexity: building celllular microtubules -
David Turell,
2016-02-11, 20:40
- Biological complexity: how heart mucle works -
David Turell,
2016-02-09, 00:35
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
David Turell,
2016-01-31, 15:30
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
dhw,
2016-01-31, 13:12
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
David Turell,
2016-01-30, 14:22
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
dhw,
2016-01-30, 13:36
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
David Turell,
2016-01-29, 18:30
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
dhw,
2016-01-29, 13:44
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
David Turell,
2016-01-28, 19:08
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
dhw,
2016-01-28, 18:15
- Biological complexity: cell molecular communication -
David Turell,
2016-01-27, 18:29
- Biological complexity: ion channels -
David Turell,
2016-01-18, 22:07
- Biological complexity: evolution of ion exchange pathways -
David Turell,
2015-07-27, 15:23
- Biological complexity: metabolic gene controls -
David Turell,
2015-07-25, 15:46
- Biological complexity: cell division chromosome actions -
David Turell,
2015-07-13, 18:48
- Biological complexity: vesicle membranes -
David Turell,
2015-07-10, 16:00
- Biological complexity: regulating metabolism -
David Turell,
2015-06-22, 19:40
- Biological complexity: nucler pores -
David Turell,
2015-06-06, 20:28
- Biological complexity: bacteria fight viruses -
David Turell,
2015-04-20, 14:38
- Biological complexity: the cell, a video animation -
David Turell,
2015-04-17, 15:54
- Biological complexity -
David Turell,
2013-11-15, 14:45