Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, June 02, 2016, 12:27 (3097 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You have agreed to the possibility that what you call a “free complexity mechanism” allows the bush “to spread as it wishes”, and “God only steps in to dabble”. If so, the mechanism has to be autonomous, which means it has to come up with its own combinations! But yes, theistic version: God is the designer of the autonomous mechanism.
DAVID: And God, therefore, has put in programs to organize what complexifications are created, probably allowing for outlandish results like whales.-Where does your “therefore” come from? If God put in programmes for every complexification, the complexity mechanism is NOT free, the bush spreads as God wishes and not as “it” wishes, and God does not “only step in to dabble”, he has organized everything!-DAVID: As stated God programs for complexity.-There is a world of difference between God programming for complexity by creating a mechanism which freely (autonomously) creates its own complexities and God putting in programmes for the creation of every complexity!-dhw: In any community, there are members that perform different roles. There is therefore no escaping the concept of cellular intelligence […]
DAVID: You are having fun.
dhw: Why is this argument not to be taken seriously?
DAVID: Because cell intelligent responses can be intelligently planned fixed molecular reactions.-“Can be” fixed reactions, but “can” also be the result of cellular intelligence. Your dogmatic insistence that you are right, although nobody can know which version is true, does not entitle you to dismiss the hypothesis as unworthy of serious consideration. Ts, ts!-dhw: Since you know as well as I do that Shapiro believes in cellular intelligence, as did McClintock, you can hardly claim that three words removed from their context support your hypothesis. But perhaps you are "having fun"!
DAVID: Yes, fun. I have my point of view developed from my teachings in medical school. Cells are automatic, as are organs such as livers (a cell community). I'd love to interview Shapiro. I think we actually believe the same things.-Organs such as livers act automatically (or appear to act automatically) once they have been invented. They play their part in all the automatic activities that enable organisms to go on living. Cells and cell communities will only have to use their inventive intelligence firstly to create the organ (my hypothesis attempts to solve the mystery of evolutionary innovation), and secondly to solve new problems. As for Shapiro agreeing with you, he explicitly states that “living cells and organisms are cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully to ensure survival, growth and proliferation. They possess corresponding sensory, communication, information-processing, and decision-making capabilities” (Evolution: A View from the 21st Century, p. 143) He dismisses opposition to this as: “Large organisms chauvinism, so we like to think that only we can do things in a cognitive way.” This is one belief you clearly do not share.