Biological complexity: understanding the ribosome (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, July 25, 2017, 13:38 (2678 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

dhw: Whether this intelligence springs from a god (or in your theistic version has been preprogrammed or dabbled by a god), from chance, or from some form of panpsychism remains open. (Reblak offers another alternative, but we are both waiting to hear a bit more about the nature of Mother Nature!)
DAVID: You are welcome.I cannot accept chance. And I view panpsychism as a variation on universal consciousness, an equivalent of God.
dhw: Some forms of panpsychism are indeed a God equivalent, but you know very well that the form I am proposing is totally different: namely, the evolution of zillions of individual consciousnesses from the bottom up (as opposed to your sourceless top-down, know-it-all single god). In my opinion, this is no more and no less likely than the god and the chance hypotheses.
DAVID: OK. We can't explain one form of consciousness (ours) and you want zillions. Are they all alike or dissimilar since the organisms are dissimilar?

We can’t explain any form of consciousness, and it is not an explanation to argue that there is one unexplained consciousness (God) that invented every other form of consciousness. Since organisms are dissimilar, it is obvious that the zillions are also dissimilar, but if we are talking about the origin of life, we must start with the hypothethical, rudimentary consciousnesses of blobs of inorganic matter which amalgamate and with time and experience increase their degree of consciousness and their range of dissimilarity until they come up with the living cell. No, I don’t believe it. I offer it as an alternative to the other two equally unbelievable hypotheses.

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TONY: DHW: Where is the cut off point for this intelligence? Is it cellular? Molecular? Atomic? Where is the demarcation for you to say 'There is no intelligence beyond this point"? I only ask because that is where the discussion needs to start really, not at some nebulous, ill defined point in the transition between chemical soup and single cell. Further, this study would seem on the surface to demolish that concept because getting 50+ atypical proteins and a few RNA together at the same time in the same place to form a Ribosome which is incredibly complex and needed in turn to make the infinitely more complex cell requires a great deal more planning and work then I am prepared to accept as coming from inorganic matter.

I agree with all your objections. As above, in my response to David, the panpsychist process would have to start at a rudimentary atomic level, and in the course of billions of years build up to the point at which it forms the single cell. The same progression of increasing intelligence as that from the single cell to ourselves (which I do find credible, though not sufficiently so for me to be convinced). I can only repeat that here I am offering alternative hypotheses for the origin of life. I can’t believe in this one, any more than I can believe in chance or in an eternal, inexplicable, sourceless mind with the knowledge and power to create a seemingly infinite universe and all the complexities of life. This scepticism is one main reason why I remain agnostic: I cannot find an explanation that convinces me.