Biological complexity: protozoa sans mitochondria (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, May 21, 2016, 15:35 (3108 days ago) @ dhw

David: All of this is because we do not know how speciation is accomplished. Again it is the dilemma of pre-programming or dabbling or both.[/i]
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> dhw: Ah well, square one it is. I simply cannot imagine your God supplying the first cells with programmes to pass on through billions of years and organisms for every single “complexification” in the history of evolution (= preprogramming). Or even constantly dabbling to add twiddly bits (complexities) just for the sake of adding twiddly bits.-Fair enough: You have given me the task of explaining my vision of God's actions, when all we can see is results. Evolution produces very extreme complexity developed beyond what simple adaptation to stress or competition would imply. This is seen in body forms (neck), mammals birthing in water (Whales), extensive migrations (birds, insects), when the simple thought is 'why bother?' This is where purpose comes into play. Unless you realize this needs planning you won't use purpose as explanations, and you rely on 'imagining' without the underpinning of 'purpose'. My presumed purpose is to produce humans. If that is accepted, all falls into place as a overall concept. We have a beginning (bacteria) and an endpoint (us) but your 'how' questions are what bother you about this. I would like to understand the 'how' but from a different viewpoint; I'm interested, you are critical. Would you be less critical if you understood fully how evolution works? Well, we have to work with what we have.-> dhw: Anyway, why stress? Why not in response to an environmental change that allows for new “complexities”? -The adaptations of epigenetics are small, not very complex, and so far no explanation for speciation.-> dhw:Nor can I imagine God setting up a programme only to find that he doesn't like how it's working out, so he has to dabble to put right his own blunders. What sort of planning is that?-You are describing my problem in trying to explain evolution guided by God: it is still pre-planning codes or dabbles along the way. One or both can be correct, but we have no clue. 
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> dhw: But if God starts each “complexification” automatically according to his own pre-set programme (or dabbles some of them), and organisms do not have an autonomous inventive mechanism to produce their own “complexities”, I can't imagine any kind of “somewhat” or “semi” that will enable organisms to complexify in a way he doesn't like. Please tell us more.-What you are asking is when God sets a process in motion, how much leeway is allowed, if any. Tony, I think would say none. But from my non-religious approach, I admit I have no way of knowing when looking at the results evolution produced. It is your suggestion, not mine, that God sets evolution in motion and sits back to watch the fun, making God sound human. He isn't.