Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, March 23, 2022, 11:39 (759 days ago) @ David Turell

Bird migration

DAVID: The birds went 10,000 miles plus and had 360 degrees of direction to do it in. So in your view they simply flew off directionless for many days with no built-in preparation of extra calories/fuel, discovered a great feeding warm spot and they decided to fly back each year and do it all over again, incidentally using the magnetic field receptors they somehow had on board!! The birds easily planned it in your just-so mind.

dhw: You asked about the first attempt – i.e. the origin of migration. Your account is exactly what I am suggesting, and I don’t know why you suddenly bring in planning. Now would you please answer the question you keep ignoring: Why is it OK for God to choose a spot thousands of miles away, but “just-so woolly” if birds find the spot themselves?

DAVID: You forget, my view is God set up the migrations. I've shown how difficult it would be for birds to do it themselves, especially over 10,000 miles. Your view fits a few hundred miles of easy flying.

dhw: How can I have forgotten when I keep asking you why your God chose a spot 10,000 miles away? And why won’t you answer? We all know what a wonder it is that they manage to fly so far, but the fact is that they did and they do. What exactly is your theory as to how it all started?

DAVID: In your view the birds found the spot! Not God! What is your reasonable answer?

My reasonable answer is that the first migrant birds found themselves freezing over here and set out to find a warmer spot. They had no idea where they were heading, but eventually they found a spot, and have been going there ever since. You’d have thought that if God was guiding them, he might have found somewhere closer, but I mustn’t anticipate. Eventually you will answer my repeated question: what is your theory, and in particular why did your God choose a spot 10,000 miles away?

How cells communicate

DAVID: Nicely evading the point. A molecular signal triggers another automatic molecular signal, no current thought involved. The thought was in the designer's mind long before the reactions.

dhw: It is you who are evading the point which you yourself raised with your question. If an invader tries to destroy one of my cell communities (organs), although I myself am not sending any signals, the message will be conveyed by the organ itself to the cells that specialize in fighting invaders. The molecules carry the information and the cells respond. The question is what processes the new information and composes the message that is to be carried by the molecules. If you think God has provided the molecules with every single message that will ever be conveyed throughout the animal kingdom for the rest of time, so be it. I suggest it is more likely that he designed the mechanism which processes each new piece of information and composes the message that the molecules then automatically convey to the intended recipients. It is the processing and the decision making that are NOT automatic and demand intelligence.

DAVID: Wrong!!! Invaders are immediately sensed by neutrophils, immune attack cells, before any cell committees even react. That is God's real mechanism! At the sane time molecular signals call in further reinforcements. The bold is true but not as you intended.

Thank you for the additional details and for acknowledging that there has to be an intelligence which processes the information and composes the message which the molecules convey. I’m sure you’ll agree that this sounds more plausible than your God providing instructions to cover every attack in the history of life.