Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, January 05, 2022, 19:44 (839 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: My purposeful God is way stronger than your humanized one as previously explained. Why can't you accept my theory that this is the only form of life system to an all-powerful God. If God can do anything He wants, and this is what He produced to create life, this must be the only way possible. Defy that logic!

dhw: What logic? If God can do anything he wants, then if he wanted an error-free system, he would have created it!!! The logic here is that if he could do anything he wanted, this must have been the system he wanted.

The logic follows. An all-powerful God must produce the system according to His analysis that will work. This follows since He is all knowing!!!

dhw: what you call the “editing systems” are simply the responses of what we call good cells as they fight for survival against what we call bad cells.

Remember in my view God designed those cells to be editors to solve error problems. In your quasi-theist approach you recognize all-powerful so you must also recognize all-knowing

T cells
dhw: I propose that these evolved when vertebrates first came on the scene, and new solutions were required by the arrival of new problems, thus mirroring the whole course of evolution.

DAVID: Crazy idea. Before vertebrates evolved earlier forms must have had precursor forms of T cells or an equivalent. All earlier forms had immune systems.

dhw: Of course they did. And evolution is the history of how comparatively simple forms, including immune systems, developed into comparatively complex forms, as cells developed new responses to new challenges. Bones, brains, penises and T cells were not “complete from the beginning”. I suggest that what was there “at the beginning” was the (perhaps God-given) mechanism that would produce them all.

Back to a weak form of God. God designs cells with purposeful duties, but design for future forms is God's role.

Zebrafish inner ear
DAVID: If God used Chixculub He had it as part of His plan.

dhw: So do you believe he planned every change in environmental conditions, global and local, and every response, species, econiche, lifestyle, natural wonder, and problem plus solution right at the very beginning? Never dabbled because he had a new idea? Or because new conditions required his intervention?

I said if. My position is still an initial program in genome and steps in along the way as necessary. Percentage of either action is unknown.

DAVID: All humanizing approaches to an imagined God. God is above needing enjoyments, tantalizing events for entertainment. God knows what He wants and does it with purpose.

dhw: Why have you ignored your own past “humanizing” answers? That he perhaps wanted us humans to recognize his work and form a relationship with him, that he enjoys creating, that he watches his creations with interest? Of course if he exists, he knows what he wants and does it with purpose. So once more, if you wish to ignore your own past statements, please tell us now what you think was his purpose in creating humans, and in the light of your later talk of plural “goals”, what these might have been.

Back to resurrecting's my guesses. An all-powerful, all-knowing God does not need free-for-alls, entertainment, etc. He creates whatever He wishes for His own reasons and likely watches humans who can do all sorts of surprising things with the God-given free will since they are now unpredictable compared to all previous organisms He designed

DAVID: Usual note. I don't know why He picked the goals He picked, but you constantly demand guesswork, which makes it your problem.

dhw: Please tell us what these goals were! If you can’t tell us what the goals were, or why he chose them, or how they fit in with life’s history, then I suggest that the theory might just possibly be wrong. I don’t see that as my problem!

It is your problem. I accept God's production without question. You want to know His reasoning behind what He created. A guess as above. Humans are unpredictable and they can recognize God exists. Does God need humans? I don't know but He obviously wanted them to exist. I leave it at that