Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, March 22, 2022, 18:38 (975 days ago) @ David Turell

BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER CONTROLS

DAVID: God know what He is doing even if you don't seem to. A breast-fed newborn receives colostrum with ready made generalized antibodies until he starts to make his own from day one. Neutrophile attack cells work from day one, and solve simple skin infections with no antibodies needed. Your imagined death rates don't exist. And, yes God gave bacteria methods to fight and defend.

dhw: You may not have noticed, but we are in the midst of a pandemic caused by a virus. Millions of people have died or been permanently damaged, and your God’s instructions have apparently not yet come into play.

DAVID: What don't you follow? Recent studies show many areas with vaccinations used, there is a 95% herd immunity, although vaccination rates are still around 50+%! Herd immunity is from God's immune system. Media hysteria is coloring your views. Do I need to cover this information arena also?

The media tell us that so far there have been over 6 million deaths from Covid-19, with over 600,000 of them in the USA. But the media also suggest that this is a huge underestimate, and the figures could be as high as 18 million deaths. Is this “media hysteria”?

Bird migration

DAVID: The birds went 10,000 miles plus and had 360 degrees of direction to do it in. So in your view they simply flew off directionless for many days with no built-in preparation of extra calories/fuel, discovered a great feeding warm spot and they decided to fly back each year and do it all over again, incidentally using the magnetic field receptors they somehow had on board!! The birds easily planned it in your just-so mind.

dhw: You asked about the first attempt – i.e. the origin of migration. Your account is exactly what I am suggesting, and I don’t know why you suddenly bring in planning. Now would you please answer the question you keep ignoring: Why is it OK for God to choose a spot thousands of miles away, but “just-so woolly” if birds find the spot themselves?

DAVID: You forget, my view is God set up the migrations. I've shown how difficult it would be for birds to do it themselves, especially over 10,000 miles. Your view fits a few hundred miles of easy flying.

How can I have forgotten when I keep asking you why your God chose a spot 10,000 miles away? And why won’t you answer? We all know what a wonder it is that they manage to fly so far, but the fact is that they did and they do. What exactly is your theory as to how it all started?

How cells communicate

DAVID: What you do not realize is a molecular signal is a one-on-one reaction of one molecule with another molecule, which reaction sets off an automatic series of responding reactions. Where is the planning thought?

dhw: Your question is the essence of the dispute, though I don’t know why you insert the word “planning”. The thought is a reaction to an immediate requirement, not a crystal ball gaze into a not yet existing future. It is the thought that governs the signals that set the automatic processes in motion. The molecules are responsible for transmuting the thought into action. I join Shapiro in proposing that the thought comes from the intelligence of the cell as it RESPONDS to new requirements, but you already know that.

DAVID: Nicely evading the point. A molecular signal triggers another automatic molecular signal, no current thought involved. The thought was in the designer's mind long before the reactions.

It is you who are evading the point which you yourself raised with your question. If an invader tries to destroy one of my cell communities (organs), although I myself am not sending any signals, the message will be conveyed by the organ itself to the cells that specialize in fighting invaders. The molecules carry the information and the cells respond. The question is what processes the new information and composes the message that is to be carried by the molecules. If you think God has provided the molecules with every single message that will ever be conveyed throughout the animal kingdom for the rest of time, so be it. I suggest it is more likely that he designed the mechanism which processes each new piece of information and composes the message that the molecules then automatically convey to the intended recipients. It is the processing and the decision making that are NOT automatic and demand intelligence.

Vagus nerve organ signals

DAVID: the word 'code' is used over and over. Code simply stands for information. This exquisite design was set up in animals when they first appeared with complexity. i think it must have started with the Cambrian organisms. Such automaticity is required for living freely.

Of course it is required. And so too is the intelligence which processes the information and composes the relevant messages. Your reference to the Cambrian reminds me of the fact that you believe the animals from which we are descended were designed without any precursors, which contradicts your theory that evolution is a continuous process including an unbroken line from bacteria to humans. I am the one who believes in continuity, but continuity does not mean that all life forms were preparation for humans and their food.