Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 15:11 (843 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: If your God exists, how can you possibly make assumptions about what he is and is not capable of? You assume that he is all-powerful, and then you assume that he can’t correct some of the mistakes that result from the system he designed! I don’t know why you mention theodicy, which concerns the problem of how an all-good God can create evil. Of course there is no theodicy discussion if the creator is chance!

All reasoning about God is circular: we look our reality, assume a creator mind which must be extremely powerful and then decide upon the personality of that mind again based on the good and bad we see.

A cell repair design
DAVID: See today's entry on quantum imaginary numbers: materialism is dead.

DAVID: If we use imaginary numbers that mathematicians make up to describe the quantum basis of reality, then any form of materialism is dead.

dhw: If we use imaginary properties that atheist scientists make up from combinations of matter and energy, then God is dead.

DAVID: Not comparable. The made-up numbers work, which means reality requires mind.

dhw: The authors and you have both used conditional “if” clauses. But you also stated earlier “materialism is dead” without an “if” clause. I asked if you had conducted a a poll among scientists to see if they agree.

ID folks agree with me. We use our minds to find the imaginary numbers that MUST exist for quantum theory to work, which it does. magnificently

T cell
DAVID: The quote refers to cellular apoptosis. All organisms prior to vertebrates had immune systems and vertebrate immune system came from them. Your point is is off base.

dhw: Of course it’s not off base. Clearly if T cells only exist in vertebrates, they were not part of the immune system of earlier life forms, and therefore you cannot say they were there from the beginning. They would have evolved, just as vertebrate structures evolved from invertebrates in what you constantly tell us has been a development from the simple to the complex.

DAVID: We cannot know fossil blood! I agree blood evolved, so you are off point. First early vertebrates are late Cambrian and must have had the precursors of current T cells, from the beginning of vertebrates.

dhw: How can it be off point? Your original statement was that T cells must have been designed from the beginning or we would not have survived infections. I pointed out that they only arrived when vertebrates came into existence, and so now you are telling me that they must have arrived from the beginning of vertebrates. In other words, they were not designed from the beginning, but evolved just as blood and vertebrae evolved!

We actually agree. All steps are designed in my view, remember?

Zebrafish inner ear
dhw: I am always struck by the fact that so many researchers emphasize the manner in which cells cooperate to create new structures. Thank you for two more quotes for the collection:
“The inner ear is a model for how cells work together to make complex structures that are needed for organisms to function."
“Our work shows a new way of doing things," Megason said, adding that he hopes it will encourage people to consider additional mechanisms that may be involved in shaping tissues. Cells have to use many different forces in order to accomplish what they need to.”

DAVID: Of course they do automatically as controlled by DNA instructions.

dhw: I don’t have a problem if you think that, in accordance with the theory of cellular intelligence, the autonomous guiding intelligence of cells is situated within the DNA.

Yes, designed into the DNA