Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, January 01, 2022, 11:45 (20 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You are avoiding my contention that God created the only working system that could be created, strength or weakness not involved. The God I believe in knows exactly what He wants to create and controls all creation. A strongly purposeful God.

dhw: I am not avoiding your contention – I am challenging it! I am suggesting that an all-powerful God may have WANTED what you call “errors” which he was unable to control! If he exists, then of course he knows what he wants. In this particular context (remember, I offer alternatives), my strongly purposeful God intentionally designs what you call “errors” and what I call a free-for-all. Why is a God who can’t control “errors” stronger than a God who deliberately designs a free-for-all?

DAVID: As before it shows we think of two different kinds of God. I believe in my kind and believe your is very humanized.

And still you haven’t explained why a God who designs what he wants to design is “weaker” than a God who can’t control errors resulting from the system he designed. I would even go so far as to suggest that a God who can’t control errors is more “humanized” than a God who always gets exactly what he wants.

T cell
dhw: We know the purpose of the immune system. Your point was that T cells must have been there “from the beginning”. I proposed that they evolved, along with vertebrae, when they were needed to combat new infections. All part of evolution’s development from comparatively simple to extremely complex. All the websites I have looked at tell us that T cells originate in the bone marrow. How, then, could they have originated in organisms without bones?

DAVID: Even lobsters (no bones) must have had some form of immunity. Being alive requires it.

dhw: Of course all life forms must have had some form of immunity. But the article was about T cells. In your obsession with your theory that your God has in advance provided a programme for every undabbled step in evolution, you claimed that T cells must have been there from the beginning. They obviously weren’t.

DAVID: As I noted they were designed from previous editions.

It is the nature of evolution that all forms develop from preceding forms. That applies to different types of cell as it does to different species of animal. How many brain cells does a bacterium have??? The whale and homo sapiens also developed from “previous editions”, but that doesn’t mean they were there “from the beginning”!

Zebrafish inner ear
DAVID: The intelligence cells exhibit is from God's instructions in the genome.

dhw: Do you mean that God tells all cells what to do at all times, or do you mean that his “instructions” have created the autonomous (i.e. information-processing, communicative, decision-making) intelligence I referred to in the passage you agreed with?

DAVID: Yes, the genome instructions do all of that with automatic decision-making.

dhw: So we are back to your God’s 3.8-billion-year-old programme for every single undabbled phase of evolution, life style, natural wonder, solution of all problems created by all environmental changes and all “errors” arising from the system which your God designed, apart from those he couldn’t solve and left to us to work out.

DAVID: I won't leave the position of a designer did the work.

I am not asking you to. The two questions under discussion are how and why he “did the work”. According to you, he issued instructions as above (through a 3.8-billion-year-old programme or through personal dabbling). The proposal that he gave life forms autonomous intelligence to do their own designing does not in any way require you to abandon your belief in a designer. But it would relieve you of the need to dodge awkward questions about the how and the why!

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