Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, January 28, 2022, 21:25 (817 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Sizeable jumps of 200 cc in skull size will kill the babies. Still no explanation accept design.

dhw: You seem to think that these jumps happened overnight -...And as usual, you want fossils for every cc.

The many erectus fossils over much time and differing areas indicate gaps since we NEVER find evidence of itty-bitty stepwise changes you viewpoint demands.

dhw: All our ancestors would have lived like one another and like our fellow animals, with survival the basis of their actions. bbBut homos gradually developed more sophisticated MEANS of survival.bb For instance, tools and weapons. Please tell us your God’s reasons for each overnight operation that he conducted on each species of homo to make their brains jump 200 cc? To prepare for what, if you think they all lived the same way? I’m reluctant to include Brazilian tribes, as they have their own cultures which should be respected as being different but not inferior to ours.

DAVID: The bold above is significant. Gradual development using a bigger brain, which allows it, is my point.

dhw: Your point was that there was no change in lifestyle. Now you agree that there were gradual changes. And the other “point” is that we don’t know what requirements led to each expansion, but of course once the brain had expanded, it was used and would have complexified (just as ours does) in response to whatever was required, until some major new requirement would have exhausted its capacity for complexification, and then it would have needed to expand.

You make my point. Each bigger brain has capacity used up and then it jumps to a bigger size until that size is used up.

DAVID: Intelligent cells cannot design for future use.

dhw: No, they design in response to present requirements. Pre-sapiens X is sick of hand-to-paw battles with his prey and invents the spear. This requires new cells for its design, manufacture and use.

No, existing cells complexify in the same-sized brain. They are there waiting to be used.

“Requirements for design” transferred from “More miscellany”)
dhw: The brain example seems to be the only one you can think of, and you still haven’t offered a single reason for rejecting my proposal/

DAVID: Each past brain form had the necessary size/complexity present to then respond to new requirements. That brains can respond in no way shows how they enlarged.

dhw: They would have used their existing size and ability to complexify until the capacity was insufficient to deal with a new requirement, and so meeting that new requirement would have resulted in the formation of new cells, i.e. expansion. Why do you find this illogical?

That is my point as explained above. They enlarge after full use. Each new size and neuron complexity comes large in preparation for new uses. Illogical??>

Molecular binding controls.
dhw: […] my main concern above is to distinguish between automatic and autonomous actions, since you always focus on what is already established (and therefore automatic) and try to avoid actions that require new responses.

DAVID: In cancer there are new responses which are distortions of what normal cells do automatically.

dhw: Agreed. But cancer cells unfortunately find their own means of survival, and they process and communicate information just as normal cells do. If you believe in common descent, then every evolutionary innovation will entail a change from what some cells “normally” do automatically.

Agreed. New automatic processes appear