Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by David Turell , Wednesday, December 15, 2021, 18:25 (1072 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Origin of life or of new species requires intelligent design, my constant position.

dhw: I don’t have a problem with that position, but intelligent cells (possibly designed by your God) could be the source of intelligent design in evolution. In future, when you give examples of automatic cellular behaviour, please remember that generally I agree, because intelligence is only needed in the context of origins and responses to changing conditions. Otherwise, we'll keep repeating this discussion ad nauseam.

DAVID: Using the Cambrian gap, no major environmental changes have been found, but I have carefully documented here the few papers that discussed possible factors of change. Go look back.

dhw: I don’t know what papers you’re referring to. I know that one theory is an increase in oxygen as a major environmental change posited as the cause of the “explosion”.

Oxygen which appeared in large quantities 2.5 bya may have allowed the Cambrian at 540 bya, but cannot be called cause.

T cells

dhw: But if all life forms have an algorithm to correct the errors, why doesn’t it work until thousands/millions have died?

DAVID: Death is a built-in necessary part of God's living system. Also re view cell proptosis.

dhw: The definition I’ve found: “Proptosis (rare plural: proptoses) refers to forward protrusion of the globe with respect to the orbit.” Please stick to the general principles we are discussing.

Sorry for misspelling: correct is apoptosis, "programmed cell death".

Cellular intelligence
QUOTE: "While scientists are still working out the details of how the eye evolved, we are also still stuck on the question of how intelligence emerges in biology. How can a biological system ever generate coherent and goal-oriented behavior from the bottom up when there is no external designer? (David’s bold)

"In fact, intelligence—a purposeful response to available information, often anticipating the future—is not restricted to the minds of some privileged species. It is distributed throughout biology, at many different spatial and temporal scales. (David’s bold) There are not just intelligent people, mammals, birds and cephalopods. Intelligent, purposeful problem-solving behavior can be found in parts of all living things: single cells and tissues, individual neurons and networks of neurons, viruses, ribosomes and RNA fragments, down to motor proteins and molecular networks. (dhw’s bold) Arguably, understanding the origin of intelligence is the central problem in biology—one that is still wide open.

dhw: Wow! Once again, I can only thank you for your integrity. After claiming that the theory of cellular intelligence belongs to the past, you have suddenly offered us a theory which takes the intelligence of ALL life forms for granted. The only problem is its origin. And of course I agree, that problem remains wide open.

DAVID: [...] pure sophistry of thought. Skipped over is the question of how the first 'modules became intelligent The rest builds upon that enormous gap. Even dhw grants God might have given them intelligent actions. Accepting a designer is a more logical conclusion. Also dhw, please note the bold in the second paragraph!! Necessary anticipation of the future by biological organisms is recognized even by these guys!

dhw: He hasn’t “skipped” the question! He says the origin of intelligence is wide open! And yes of course intelligence involves anticipation of the future! Birds migrate, life forms of all kinds provide themselves with protection against predators and the climate, store food, prepare for winter. That is a far cry from your theory that your God looks into his crystal ball, and sees water on the way, and so pops in to operate on pre-whale legs to turn them into flippers and then leaves them lying there waiting for the water to arrive.

The implication you skipped is that since intelligence anticipates the future, and that has to apply to process of speciation, which you keep denying, and simply call for immediate adaptation to current conditions changing. Adaptation for the future is obvious in fossils after a large fossil gap, which is the actual fossil record.