Cellular intelligence: (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, January 06, 2022, 15:26 (1050 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The logic follows. An all-powerful God must produce the system according to His analysis that will work. This follows since He is all knowing!!!

dhw: An all-powerful God will produce the system he wants, and of course it will work. It will work the way he wants it to. He is not forced against his will to use a system that will contain errors which he doesn’t want and which he can’t correct!

How do you know that! My point is the current system is the only one that will work

dhw: Ergo, this system with what you call “errors” is what he wanted, and so I suggest they are not “errors” but reflect a built-in freedom to allow for infinite variations, including what we call “good” and “bad” cells.

The freedom is the free-floating molecules have the freedom to make mistakes. Not desired by God who designs evolution and added editing systems that work properly at many trillions to one odds.

dhw: Of course I remember your illogical view that an all-powerful, all-knowing God had no choice but to produce an error-strewn system which he could not control.

An all-knowing God knows which system will work and designed it.

T cells

DAVID: Back to a weak form of God. God designs cells with purposeful duties, but design for future forms is God's role.

dhw: There is nothing “weak” about a God who purposefully provides cells with a mechanism which can produce the vast, increasingly complex bush of life that constitutes evolution’s history. Stop dodging. T cells were not present “at the beginning”.

So your God gives up control over advancing evolutions direction. And a repeat: T c ells evolved from previous forms.

Zebrafish inner ear

DAVID: I said if. My position is still an initial program in genome and steps in along the way as necessary. Percentage of either action is unknown.

dhw: So you now leave open the possibility that your God did NOT plan everything in advance, but “stepped in as necessary”. Why would he find it “necessary” to step in if he’d planned us humans right from the beginning and then designed every step himself? With him designing all those life forms, econiches, natural wonders etc. that had no connection with humans plus food, it sounds to me as if he was experimenting or getting new ideas as he went along. He might even have allowed a free-for-all, and then “stepped in” because he didn’t like the direction in which it was heading.

An experimenting God is a weak humanized form. My God sets His goals and designs them step by step.

DAVID: All humanizing approaches to an imagined God. God is above needing enjoyments, tantalizing events for entertainment. God knows what He wants and does it with purpose.

dhw: Why have you ignored your own past “humanizing” answers? That he perhaps wanted us humans to recognize his work and form a relationship with him, that he enjoys creating, that he watches his creations with interest? Of course if he exists, he knows what he wants and does it with purpose.

DAVID: Back to resurrecting my guesses. An all-powerful, all-knowing God does not need free-for-alls, entertainment, etc. He creates whatever He wishes for His own reasons and likely watches humans who can do all sorts of surprising things with the God-given free will since they are now unpredictable compared to all previous organisms He designed.

dhw: You are gradually beginning to cotton on. An all-powerful God does what he wants. Being all-powerful does not mean not wanting something! Maybe forget the word “need”. You can want something without needing it. So maybe he created surprising, unpredictable humans and “likely watches” them, because he wanted to create something surprising and unpredictable to watch. Ditto the rest of evolution. Welcome to one of my theories.

I can't disagree to this form. A God who wanted to design humans is my God, who obviously designed them in stages we call evolution. All 'evolution' is a God plan from its beginning.