Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, March 04, 2022, 15:40 (783 days ago) @ dhw

Immune system complexity

DAVID: To repeat: immune cells recognize non-self, and automatically attach killing protein, and remember to do it in the future.

dhw: I suggest that if he exists, he gave cells the ability to work out their own solutions, though we know for a fact that in many cases they are unable to do so. Their intelligence is limited. And in your theory, somewhat surprisingly perhaps, your all-knowing God’s instructions are also limited.

Yes, we get sick. Immune response is not immediate in success, but immune cells make antibodies to all attackers automatically.

Cellular intelligence: started in bacteria

DAVID: Today ID views Shapiro as I do:

dhw: But this article, as quoted here, does not view Shapiro as you do.
https://mindmatters.ai/2021/11/university-of-chicago-biochemist-all-living-cells-are-co...

dhw: [...] This where the author does a big slide from bacteria functioning “with a lot of intelligence” to the origin of intelligence generally:

QUOTES: "If the cell itself does not create the intelligence it embodies, what does? Panpsychists argue that all of nature participates in some way in consciousness and humans are the most highly developed example. Theists argue that only a mind outside the universe could create something like human consciousness.
"As we learn more and more about the intricate complexities of nature, perhaps debates over the origin of life, intelligence, consciousness, and similar topics will increasingly be between panpsychists and theists rather than materialists and theists. A whole new environment."

dhw: The author is simply raising the problem of the origin of intelligence/consciousness, and is not dismissing the concept of cellular intelligence as you do.

DAVID: The ID inference throughout the article implies God does it. You are so unacquainted with how ID works (no God mention) God is constantly understood as inferred. As a result you and I read the article differently.

dhw: You said that “ID view Shapiro as I do”. But the article doesn’t, because it doesn’t debunk Shapiro’s theory that cells are intelligent. It simply asks what is the source of intelligence, consciousness etc. See below for your agreement.

DAVID: In the ID community Shapiro is highly respected as a significant researcher. They obviously reach a different conclusion as to the source of intelligent reactions and responses. I agree with ID.

dhw: Exactly. Shapiro’s concept of cellular intelligence (which you flatly refuse even to consider) is used only as a basis for discussing the source of intelligence generally. You and ID-ers apparently agree that the source is your God, although they don’t mention God and you do. As far as I know, Shapiro steers clear of discussing the possible source.

DAVID: Agreed.

dhw: Thank you. I trust you will now withdraw your remark that I am unacquainted with how ID works.

I had to remind you. Your earlier comments ignored what I made you finally recognize the inference to God as the source of nature's intelligence always underlies every ID article. I work just like ID.