Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 15:48 (1010 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Shapiro is not an ID'er but ID liked his work.

DAVID: I've told you before, Shapiro's elegant work on bacteria was appreciated by ID, but his extrapolation to its application to explain evolution was not.

dhw: That is not what you told me, and it is not what I asked. Do (some) ID-ers accept the concept of cellular intelligence designed by God, or do they share your fixed belief that cells do nothing but obey your God’s instructions?

I am an exact copy of all ID'ers. God's instructions win.

DAVID: The 'manifestation of intelligence" is in the underlying design. Remember odds are 50/50, but only one is correct. I've chosen my side of the issue from my knowledge of how biochemistry has to work.

dhw: And other scientists who know how biochemistry has to work support the concept of cellular intelligence. We don’t need to be reminded of the different viewpoints. I just wish you would respond to the astonishing parallels that we find in the micro world (which you claim is automatic) and the macro world (which you claim is autonomous). This is what Shapiro calls “large organisms chauvinism”, but you don’t seem able to see the parallels.

DAVID: I see all the parallels. Pure parallelism is an observation, not any offer of proof.

dhw: All our theories are based on observation, and none of them offer “proof”. If they were proven, they would be seen as facts and not theories. Would you agree that the parallels offer a rational basis for the theory that since the macro world clearly demonstrates autonomous intelligence, it is POSSIBLE that the micro world is also a manifestation of autonomous intelligence?

You can't win. We observe intelligent activity by cells. The rest is logical interpretations of how that is accomplished. I see only automaticity. You theorize the opposite.

Immunity system explaining B cells

QUOTE: The first time a B cell encounters an antigen, it can take up to 15 days to produce sufficient neutralizing antibodies to quell the pathogen. The second time the same pathogen is encountered, memory B cells, which morph into antibody-producing plasma cells, respond in as few as five days and flood infiltrating pathogens with 100 times more antibodies than during the first encounter.

dhw: A fine example of how B cells learn from experience. Just like humans, they need time to work out solutions to problems, but they remember what they have done, and then they become more proficient. One would have thought that if God had issued them with instructions, either they would or would not automatically obey them. Maybe instead of issuing them with instructions, he gave them the ability to work out solutions for themselves and to remember what they have done. Just a thought.

More flailing for independent cells actions while immunity is seen as automatic by most scientists I know.