Cellular intelligence (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, February 06, 2022, 11:50 (1019 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: there is no “overexpansion” of brains, because all the cells are used for complexification until a new major requirement demands additional cells. You know perfectly well that my theory allows for your God as the designer of the mechanisms for complexification and expansion, and you have already agreed that complexification takes place without his intervention, so why shouldn’t expansion do the same? If he can design cells to establish their own connections, why should it be impossible for him to enable them to add to their numbers and to enable the skull cells to adjust accordingly?

You ignored all this, did not answer the questions, but reverted to the subject of baby brains and pelvises, already covered in full on January 25th.

dhw: This whole discussion about the brain is part of your desperate attempt to prove your theory that speciation occurs in anticipation of changing conditions – a theory which you yourself have demolished in post after post, the latest being under the heading of “Mass extinctions relate to volcanos”.

DAVID: Sorry for your disappointment but both question marks sentences are answered. [...]

What have I missed? Please tell us (again?) why a God who could create a mechanism for autonomous complexification could not have invented a mechanism for autonomous expansion of cells and skulls.

DAVID: As for new larger brains, I thought we agreed new brains are larger, then capacity is used and new larger size appears.

Yes, new larger brains are indeed new and larger, and they appear when the existing capacity FOR COMPLEXIFICATION has been used up and new cells are needed to meet a major new requirement.

DAVID: We differ on cause and that difference won't change as long as you invent no-God scenarios that do not fit the known facts as I see them.

Yes, we differ on the cause of each expansion. You claim that your God prophesies what new requirements lie ahead, and prepares the way by adding cells that are not used at the time. I suggest that the new cells are necessary to meet a new requirement, and the same cells continue to be used – through complexification – until once more their number needs to be increased to meet the next major new requirement. You continue to pretend that this latter method removes your God although, as in the statement that begins this post, I always allow for God as designer of the mechanism for expansion and complexification.

Fire spot
dhw: You have told us repeatedly that the new brain went unused for thousands of years. That was the whole point of your theory that it was “overexpanded”, with God giving us extra cells in anticipation of later requirements. The new brain clearly did not go unused if it was already solving such problems.

DAVID: The usual distortion of what has been presented. A new sized, more complex brain obviously can be used in new ways immediately. You are conflating expected future use, with no immediate use. Totally illogical. The sapiens brain from 310,000 years ago is now fully used, starting with new uses 310,000 years ago. Slicing and dicing as usual.

dhw: What “expected future use” are you talking about? And what on earth do you mean by “fully used”? Are you telling us that 310,000 years ago your God looked into his crystal ball and provided humans with cells that would not be used (= overexpansion) until we invented computers and rockets and the theory of relativity? My point is that ALL the cells were used, and new ideas, requirements etc. resulted in the SAME CELLS COMPLEXIFYING. Cells do not complexify in anticipation of new requirements, and complexification is now so efficient that some cells which were previously in use became redundant – hence shrinkage.

DAVID: Cave-dwelling earliest homos did not use much of their brain capacity! Face the fact. Shrinkage shows our brain came oversized for use, as you noted above.

I noted no such thing! I maintain that they used ALL their cells, and any new requirements were met by the efficiency of complexification. There was no oversize/overexpansion because the efficiency of complexification [resulted in some cells which had previously been used, becoming redundant.

dhw: Why do you think the brain is now “fully” used?

DAVID: We now handle everything with the complexification you champion.

And so you believe that complexification is finished, do you? Every time we learn something new, there is new complexification (remember the illiterate women?) – and so the brain will only be “fully used” when there is nothing left to learn!

Transferred from “More Miscellany”:
DAVID: The studies clearly show the inner workings of cells on information is their genome they follow.

The studies clearly show that some cells remain the same and some can change, and the latter sometimes appear to act intelligently – even you point out that “molecules literally act as if they have minds of their own”. And the studies show that cells absorb, process, remember, communicate and act on the information they absorb. You believe your God provided them with instructions, some scientists believe the above processes denote autonomous intelligence, and I suspect many scientists would rather not delve into the possible source of what appears to be intelligence. Please stop kidding yourself that your theory is the norm.