Introducing the brain: general (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, March 20, 2022, 12:12 (979 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You keep pretending that my non-belief (as opposed to disbelief) in God somehow invalidates all the rational THEISTIC arguments I offer on any of the issues we discuss. Bad idea.

DAVID: The problem is from your position you invent a god I do not recognize. The personality is totally different as I have illustrated.

Most of what follows has been covered by my post on your theory of evolution. But you go one step further here:

DAVID: […] God is not creating us for Himself but for us. Let's use a simple example. God creates, but it is a valid guess He does it with no dislike. Thus the fact that we might guess He enjoys it, does not imply a human style of enjoyment. In making that statement I certainly have not humanized him.

Please explain what you mean by "creating us for us". I don’t know what “with no dislike” is supposed to mean, or what your criteria are for validity when nobody knows the truth. The two of us, to give a “simple example”, agree that he enjoys creating and is interested in his creations. When you used the words “enjoy” and “interested”, did you think they might meant “not disliking”, not having any feelings , not being interested? You are now making a mockery of language.

Memory formation

DAVID: Kidneys, lungs, livers, etc. work without God. Why can't the brain?

dhw: Exactly. So why do you go on insisting that past brains could only complexify if God gave them instructions, and could only expand if he operated on them?

DAVID: Why must God give off His designing ability?

dhw: You just gave us examples of organs that function without God, and then you asked exactly the question I keep asking: why can’t the brain also work without God?

DAVID: It does in the complexification process.

dhw: Thank you. So God “gives off His designing ability”. Now please tell me why he could not possibly have done the same when it came to brains needing additional cells (= expansion) for further complexification.

DAVID: Complexification is not the brain designing anything new. It is simply a God-given mechanism to develop new axonal, synaptic connections within existing neurons. The neurons God designed come with the instructions of how to do it.

Complexification works without God, but God provides instructions on how to complexify? I don’t understand your logic. Complexification takes place in response to new ideas, and I propose that expansion (the addition of cells) follows the same process. The new cells do not create the ideas: they come into existence when existing complexification cannot cope with new requirements. The source of the ideas themselves in most cases remains a mystery – hence the conflict between dualism and materialism. Since you are a dualist, you assume that the brain does NOT design anything new.

DAVID: By the way, if you lose a kidney the remaining one enlarges to handle the load. But a damaged brain can't do that, only consolidate what is left.

dhw: Interesting to learn how these organs which act independently of your God find their own solutions to new problems. Maybe the answer is that – if he exists – he gave them the intelligence to do so.

DAVID: The remaining kidney has God's instructions ready to follow if needed. And the kidney reacts intelligently following instructions. You recognize design and don't understand it all at once.

You wrote: “Kidneys, lungs, livers etc. work without God. Why can’t the brain?” Now apparently they don’t work without God – they merely follow his instructions. You recognize autonomy and you don’t recognize it all at once.