Introducing the brain (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Thursday, May 10, 2018, 18:56 (221 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The need for enlargement is the part of the article I quoted: the enormous size and complexity of the human brain creates our consciousness which no one else has! The room for enough complexity is my view of the new size we have.

dhw: First contradiction: You wrote (first quote bolded): “It is the complexity that makes the difference, not the size”, but now it is the complexity AND the size, and under THEORY OF INTELLIGENCE you have written: Of more interest to our discussion is that the Neanderthal cerebellum is smaller than the sapiens and the conjecture is that is why they failed and we persisted. […]. Size matters. You also keep saying your God had to ENLARGE the pre-sapiens brain before it could think new thoughts. Your arguments change from day to day.

My quote is taken out of context. The clear meaning is that small brain intense complexity can equal larger brain less complexity: corvid=ape. Thus our intense complexity coupled with massive enlargement results in being able to use the advanced thoughts of our current s/s/c


dhw: Second contradiction, which you keep making over and over again: if the enormous size and complexity of our brain CREATES our consciousness, you are a materialist. In the days when you are a dualist, you claim that our consciousness is a piece of God’s consciousness.

Second misconception. anyone following this discussion knows I view the s/s/c as having to use the brain's complex networks to think in life. I AM ALWAYS A DUELIST. This statement is ALWAYS implied.


dhw: Your comment that complexity of cognition is based on brain complexity once again reinforces your materialism (which may well be true).
DAVID: You constantly conveniently forget that my position is that the s/s/c must use the brains network to think during life. Dualism.

dhw: The essence of dualism is that the immaterial soul uses the brain to gather information and to implement its thinking materially. That is why dualists can believe that the immaterial soul (which you call a piece of God’s consciousness) can still be itself after the death of the brain.

Your form of dualism is not mine.


dhw: I’m afraid you cannot claim that his findings support your belief in an immaterial piece of God’s consciousness (soul) or that they refute my hypothesis concerning the enlargement of the pre-sapiens brain. As for the intelligence of other organisms, you can hardly claim that I attribute it to size, when I am the one who is constantly championing the intelligence of insects and microorganisms.

DAVID: Your interpretation and mine continue to differ widely. My only point is the necessity for advanced complexity and then enough room for enough complexity to produce a spot for consciousness itself to do its work, since it must use the networks of the brain to function during life.

dhw: “Enough room”? How big is your immaterial soul, and how do you measure it? What need room are the material tools the dualist’s “soul” uses to gather information and implement its thoughts. And that, I suggest, is why the pre-sapiens brain expanded – until further expansion would have been impractical and so complexification took over.

The soul obviously requires the complexity and size of our brain for consciousness to appear. No one else with a brain has it.


DAVID: Insects and microorganisms are intelligently designed.

dhw: If God exists, all life was intelligently designed. That does not mean all life is robotic. My comment though was to refute your claim that I attribute intelligence to size.It is you who say this one day and say the opposite the next day.

Conscious behavior requires a brain. We've been here before. True human consciousness requires the presence of a massively complex large brain for the s/s/c to think with in life. The autonomic system which runs our bodies is automatic.


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