Introducing the brain: general (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 08:20 (1010 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] you dodge every single question and ignore every single explanation as you rush back to the theory that the complexities of life provide evidence for the existence of God, which is not the subject under discussion! In what way does my theory “twist the complexity mechanism out of shape”, do you now accept that the cells were used 315,000 years ago instead of lying there doing nothing, and that they complexified, and the efficiency of complexification resulted in shrinkage, and (yet again) why do you think your God could design an autonomous mechanism for complexification but could not or did not design one for expansion? Please don’t tell us that it’s because you and Adler believe that God exists.

DAVID: Same repeat: a logical God doesn't do secondhand design through others (your cells).

If your God wants to give autonomy to something, there is nothing illogical about his giving it autonomy! You agree that if he exists, he designed the complexification mechanism to work autonomously without his intervention. Why would it be illogical for him to do the same with expansion?

DAVID: The five tier of frontal lobe neurons is extremely intricate and required very thoughtful design. I wish we knew what erectus had for comparison, but I'd guess it was less complex.

I don’t know which of my questions this is supposed to answer.

Anticipation

dhw: You have completely ignored my question yesterday about WHAT was prepared/anticipated. If you mean that the mechanism for future complexifications was already there, then that would also be true of all the earlier homos. But do you mean that 315,000 years ago your God specially prepared certain cells to cope with the demands of language and of bilingualism, and so they just lay around for, say, 250,000 years doing nothing? I asked the same question about whales: did your God give them the mechanism to change legs to flippers, or did he look into his crystal ball and perform the operation to “prepare” them for a watery life at some time in the future?

DAVID: And I'm still with God speciating, however and when ever He did it. The cells (neurons) were there from the beginning in excess so complexification could work when needed in the future. You approach complexification from a backwards viewpoint.

Why won’t you give a straight answer to my questions?

DAVID: You have no logical answer to the three-part birth problem except the separate cells of the three individuals so how tele-communicate.

dhw: Already explained at least three times: Large-brained parents mix DNA, result bigger baby, birth canal and surrounds must communicate in order to adapt to bigger baby…no doubt lots of problems initially, but over generations would have sorted itself out.

DAVID: I feel sorry for the early homos with your wishful thinking and their terrible birth losses.

What wishful thinking? Do you really believe your God popped in one night and operated on some women’s birth canals and pelvises so that when they next became pregnant the baby would slip straight out? If this is not your theory, please tell us what is.

DAVID: As for language, our brain handled it well when language appeared. A brain arriving by a chance Darwin mechanism doing that is way beyond logical.

dhw: See above. How often do I have to repeat that I don’t accept chance either. As language developed, so the brain cells would have responded by making adjustments to accommodate the new usage of sounds.

DAVID: Exactly how God-provided complexification worked.

Thank you. Yet again you agree that complexification is a RESPONSE to new requirements, not an anticipation of them. So why do you go on telling me that I “approach complexification from a backwards viewpoint?”

Controlling spoken words

QUOTE: "New research has identified the part of the brain that makes sure our words are being properly articulated : the dorsal precentral gyrus. This knowledge could help treat speech problems and neural disorders in the future, the researchers say.

DAVID: our brain 315,000 years ago prepared to organize itself as part of its in initial design. Specific controls as described don't appear by chance.

dhw: I like the change from your God dabbling to the brain organizing itself, but I disagree profoundly with the idea that it prepared itself for requirements that would only arise 250,000 or so years later. Just like the whale’s anatomy “organizing itself” IN RESPONSE to different usages in the water, our brain would have “organized itself” IN RESPONSE to different usages, including the development of language.

DAVID: And did it by the God-provided complexification mechanism using the excess neurons in part of the process

Once again you agree with me that brains and bodies organize themselves, and that complexificaton results from the change and does not precede it. Our only point of disagreement is that your God gives organisms ”excess” neurons, whereas I believe that new neurons would not be created without an immediate purpose.