Introducing the brain (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, June 03, 2018, 09:31 (2152 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I view dualism as different than your view. First dualism is immaterial soul and material brain to which it is totally bonded in life. Then life and death are two different states in which the soul exists, another form of dualism, and it probably has different mechanism to adopt to the different existences it is in.

There is absolutely no difference between us here, except that there is no dualism in death! There is only soul.

DAVID: Your separatism is in stating the soul seems to sit off in mid-air and fires thoughts at the brain which it then accepts, when it is obvious the soul is working with the brain's circuits. I/soul can only communicate by using the brain circuits.

Where on earth do you get this “mid-air” from? If there is such a thing as a soul in life, it has to be within the brain/body, and I keep agreeing that the two work together. And I keep emphasizing that they have different functions, and the soul has to use the brain in order to express (communicate) its thoughts materially. You are manufacturing differences between us that simply don’t exist.

DAVID: The living you produces thoughts through your living brain.

dhw: In dualism the “living you” is a combination of mind/soul and body. You have not explained what you mean by “produce”. If the soul produces thoughts through the brain, do you mean the soul does the thinking, and the brain does the expressing/implementing? Or do you – with your Alice in Wonderland logic - mean the same soul can only have memories, feelings and the ability to think so long as it is in the brain, except that it has memories, feelings and the ability to think when it is not within the brain?

DAVID: It is more 'Through the Looking Glass' to use Louis Carroll. I see me and my soul looks back. I am my soul. Are you sure yours isn't floating away somewhere. I see full attachment. […]

Yes, you are your soul. And it is you who believe that the same soul will float away somewhere when your brain is dead.

DAVID: No it is not the same. In death it only remembers, observes and discusses.

dhw: I’m amazed that you should think that the soul in death can discuss things without being able to think, and can observe things without having any feelings about them. Especially when you keep agreeing that the soul in life is the same “personage” as the soul in death. How can you be the same personage if you can’t think or feel?

DAVID: Of course the soul thinks. Can you discuss without thought? I can't.

Thank you for repeating my own argument against your statement that it is not the same because “in death it only remembers, observes and discusses”. This whole debate revolves around your insistence that the soul depends on the brain for its ability to THINK!

dhw: The real irony in your remark is that my THEORY OF INTELLIGENCE offers you complete unity of brain and soul, and you don’t like it because it opposes your idea of a SEPARATE soul (piece of God’s consciousness) that pops in and then out of the brain, although it is NOT separate because it can’t think without the brain, except that it IS separate because it CAN think without the brain.

DAVID: I am not discussing 'separate' as the difference between life and death for the soul. You still don't understand how you deliberately look at the soul as a separate mechanism dictating to a brain, and I know I create the structure of my personage/soul from birth by working through my brain which is the only way I can reach my living soul. Please study the implications of that sentence. You created you. How?

You quite rightly said above: “I am my soul”. Now you have your soul “reaching” your soul through your brain. What you are describing is the ongoing development of the thinking, feeling, remembering, communicating, discussing you (soul) through the experiences it has in the material world as it gathers information through the brain, which gives material expression and implementation to its thoughts. There is no separation between soul and brain – but the one is immaterial and the other is material. That’s dualism, and I see no disagreement between us. The disagreement arises when you insist that there is no separation between the functions of the immaterial and the material.

DAVID: I assume/know parts of the soul's software is no longer required in the afterlife: no more structural change of personality. It is fixed. It observes the living, comments by telepathy, and is most likely relaxed and benign in thought about everything, especially the foolishness of humans struggling in life. My core memories and beliefs are retained. There should be no changes, no new concepts as none are required. Perhaps afterlife is boring.

You are welcome to speculate on what happens to you in the afterlife you believe in. Our disagreement concerns the role of the brain and the soul in life. The afterlife is only relevant in so far as you believe the soul cannot think without the brain except when there is no brain for it to think with. I have offered you a solution to this conundrum.