Introducing the brain: general (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, March 18, 2022, 19:07 (979 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Of course I deny it. I believe the frontal lobes of sapiens (which did not suddenly appear out of the blue but evolved gradually) will continue to be used in new ways so long as sapiens survives. And I must repeat that I do not believe your God inserted them into a few pre-sapiens heads thousands of years before they were needed.

DAVID: Simple different point of view as you don't believe in God.

dhw: I don’t disbelieve in God, and these references to my agnosticism are a very poor response to rational arguments concerning the possible motives and methods of your God. This is especially so when your own arguments are so irrational that you can’t explain the logic behind your point of view.

You are the one who brought up God again as He relates to the appearance of new brains.

Memory formation

DAVID: Kidneys, lungs, livers, etc. work without God. Why can't the brain?

dhw: Exactly. So why do you go on insisting that past brains could only complexify if God gave them instructions, and could only expand if he operated on them? (I have reinstated this response, as it relates more closely to your own question.)

DAVID: Why must God give off His designing ability?

dhw: You just gave us examples of organs that function without God, and then you asked exactly the question I keep asking: why can’t the brain also work without God?

It does in the complexification process. By the way, if you lose a kidney the remaining one enlarges to handle the load. But a damaged brain can't do that, only consolidate what is left..

DAVID: I have never understood your insistence on presenting this theory. Does it create a weaker God or stronger in your mind?

dhw: I needn’t repeat my answer, as it is irrelevant to the subject we are discussing. Previously, you have agreed that complexification takes place without your God’s intervention, and I keep asking why the same mechanism should not also be capable of adding new cells when needed (= expansion).

See above for facts.

Dementia

DAVID: this is about sensory confusion, not the higher levels of frontal lobe conceptualization abilities. From a materialism standpoint, many areas of the brain have important specific functions that will affect a state of consciousness but disordered consciousness remains. What is amazing is that individuals exist with little brain and normal consciousness as shown here previously. Thus materialism alone cannot explain consciousness.

dhw: I really don’t want us to reopen the thread on Dualism versus Materialism, as I‘m sure we covered every aspect of it in our earlier discussions. I agree that nobody can explain consciousness, but as with God’s existence, I can see both points of view. A materialist would certainly argue that dementia provides evidence that since damage to the brain also damages consciousness, the brain must be the source of consciousness. He would also say that in a little brain, the few cells are able to take on the additional functions of those that are missing. But these arguments still don’t explain how consciousness actually works, and they don’t take into account psychic phenomena and NDEs, which suggest that consciousness is NOT dependent on materials.

Agreed.