Miscellany (General)

by David Turell @, Monday, August 09, 2021, 15:04 (74 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Please say whether you accept the following theistic theory: your God gave cells the autonomous ability to recognize and respond to new problems by designing their own solutions.

DAVID: They follow chemical algorithms accomplish that task.

Wednesday, 4th August:
dhw: Do you mean that your God planted instructions on how to create each individual new antibody for each new future threat? Or do you mean that he gave our cells the ABILITY to recognize each new threat and to respond to it by creating new antibodies de novo without him having to intervene?[/b]

DAVID: You've got it!!! The latter portion of your comment is exactly what God did!

dhw: On 4th August, there were no instructions but your God gave cells the autonomous ability to design their own solutions “de novo”. On August 8th, cells follow algorithms (= instructions). It seems I am discussing these matters with two different people.

You are playing word games. The bold is correct, with ABILITY referring to onboard instructions.>


DAVID: Pure speculation. Adaptation within species results only in slightly changed original species.

dhw: You have changed the subject. Even if your God designed the major changes, their purpose (e.g. turning legs into flippers) was to improve the organism’s chances of survival. These changes ARE speciation, and so….yet again…it is absurd to say that changes made in order to improve chances of survival have no connection with speciation.

Subject not changed. Survival is not proven to lead to speciation!!~!!!


Retinal design allows prediction of movement

DAVID: Yes, you reverted.

dhw: I have no idea what you mean. I have responded to two different arguments. I have proposed that different degrees of vision etc. evolved gradually (you claim that retinal design had to be instant), and I have proposed that evolutionary changes (legs into flippers) evolved AS A RESULT of new requirements, whereas you claim they were created IN ANTICIPATION of new requirements.

Yes we have different interpretations


Back to theodicy: fixing genome mistakes

DAVID: And my answer is the human impression of bad bacteria may be a mistaken human impression of bacteria acting in the wrong place. Bacteria started life and are very important in their current roles.

dhw: I don’t deny the latter. Your solution to the mystery of theodicy now seems to be the pious hope that all the terrible diseases caused by bad bacteria are a mistaken human impression. Unless…now, here’s a thought…by “bacteria acting in the wrong place” you mean that your all-powerful, all-knowing, always well-intentioned God actually gave bacteria the freedom to act independently and autonomously in a great free-for-all…

Bacteria are not corralled, but are everywhere by design.


Neil Thomas
DAVID: I've found on page 55, I think, a strong objection to Darwin splitting the subject into two parts and ignored the origin of life to concentrate then on only evolution as if they were not obviously fully connected issues. More later.

dhw: I think it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the mechanisms of evolution without saying how those mechanisms came into being. You can explain how a motor engine works without giving the history of its origins, and in any case, Darwin himself allows for God as the creator of the mechanisms he describes.

The splitting avoids God immediately.


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