Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, July 06, 2021, 08:57 (23 days ago) @ David Turell

Big brain evolution
DAVID: All of us are fully aware as in schizophrenia, neurons are sick and misinterpret consciousness thought. You cannot escape dualism.

dhw: How can non-conscious cells misinterpret anything?

DAVID: Your question does not fit my example. Neurons receive consciousness. So they receive a signal and if sick, garble it. Pure dualism.

You mean my question does not fit your theory, the alternative to which is that neurons create consciousness. So they not only receive information from outside themselves, but if sick they also misinterpret (garble) it and produce false thoughts. Pure materialism. (See also Bacterial motors 2)

Neutron star black hole merge
DAVID: One of your problems is you want explanations God's actions, and they are all judgement calls based on one's analysis of God's personality.

dhw: No they are not. I want explanations of the history of life, and if God exists, I want coherence between that history and what might have been his intentions.

DAVID: The moment you make an attempt to assume God's intentions, you are assuming a God's possible personality, and yours is always humanized.

So when you say that your God only had one purpose, knew exactly how to fulfil his purpose, was always in full control, would never deliberately relinquish control, and deliberately designed “bad” viruses and bacteria, but “all his works are for the good”, you are not assuming a God’s possible personality with human traits?

Ant raft movements
dhw: The authors believe that the combined intelligences of the individuals have produced the bridge-building strategy. You quote them, and then you want to focus on the fact that an individual ant could not have thought up the strategy!

DAVID: In bird flocks, bacterial colonies, or in ants the limited individual actions produce the swarm. We interpret it as a swarm as our concept. Again as in cell functions, we are on the outside making an observation/judgement. You have yours, I have mine.

Yes, a collection of individuals may be called a swarm. And collectively they produce intelligent solutions to problems which an individual might not be able to solve. We agree. But you insist that your God preprogrammed the solutions 3.8 billion years ago, or popped in to give lessons in bridge-building or migration or on how to deal with the latest anti-bacterial measures we pesky humans devise in order to undo the damage caused by his deliberate design of what we call “bad” bacteria. I propose that what looks like intelligence might actually be intelligence.

Bacterial motors 1
QUOTE: [...] Examples of a partial system might lack sensors, lack decision logic, lack control messages, lack a rotor or stator, lack sealed bearings, lack a rod, lack a propeller, or lack redirection means. Would such partial systems be preserved long enough for additional cooperating components to evolve?

dhw: Why wouldn’t they have survived? Initially, the only competition when they were evolving was their fellow bacteria.

DAVID: The point is not your reply. How does evolution add useless parts until the proper form of a useful motor is present?

We have no idea how or when these different parts evolved, but may I suggest that in whatever combination and at whatever time they evolved, they were not useless. See also the next item:

Bacterial motors 2
QUOTE: Motile cilia, which themselves have sensory functions, also work as propeller-like extensions that allow us to breathe because they keep our lungs clean, to reproduce because they propel sperm cells, and even to properly reason because they contribute to the flow of cerebrospinal fluid in our brain ventricles. Not surprisingly, defects in the assembly and function of these tiny organelles result in devastating pathologies,

DAVID: the study of the bacterial flagellum all over again evolved into helpful celia/hairs that are vital to health. Pure irreducible complexity requiring a designer.

An excellent example of how one development leads to another as cells or parts of cells take on new functions, as they may have done in the evolution of bacterial motors themselves. Furthermore, the final sentence of the quote suggests defective material “organelles” may have devastating effects on the material brain, which then cannot reason properly. No mention here of devastating effects on the dualist’s immaterial soul. And the question remains: why would material drugs and diseases have any effect on an immaterial soul, which is supposed to do all the thinking? (I'm putting the case for materialism because David ignores it – not because I'm committed to either of the –isms.)

Root microbiome helps plants
DAVID: All the branches of evolution are necessary cooperative organisms to maintain life during evolution's steps. dhw seems confused about the issue.

Such cooperation is necessary at all times and for all forms of life, but that does not mean that at all times every form of life and cooperation was individually designed by your God, or that every form of life and cooperation was part of his one and only goal of specially designing humans and their lunch. You seem confused about the issue that is in dispute, as you keep leaving it out.

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