Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Saturday, August 07, 2021, 13:09 (1202 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: And now at last it seems that you’ve got it too. Your God did NOT plant instructions for every new antibody, which can only mean that cells have the autonomous ability to process new information, make decisions and create new antibodies without any intervention from him.

DAVID: No. God gave the cells the ability to recognize invading foreign proteins, and add to them a poisoning addition to kill them. The cells are fully programmed to do this.

dhw: A programme = planted instructions. The ability to recognize each new threat and to respond by creating new antibodies de novo without any intervention from God does not mean following God’s instructions. I guessed you would backtrack. But substituting “programme” for instructions will not change your acknowledgement that cells have the autonomous ability (no intervention from God) to recognize and respond, creating NEW antibodies.

DAVID: All you have to make it correct above is agree that the cells abilities ere programmed by God.

If by this you mean that your God designed the ability of cells to respond to new conditions by autonomously designing their own solutions to the new problems, then I will happily agree to this possibility, as the theory has always allowed for God as the designer of this ability. You have already agreed that your God did not provide explicit instructions for every new solution to every new problem, and so there is no alternative anyway.

dhw: It is absurd to argue that the purpose of a change is not the reason for the change. Speciation happens because life forms change in the quest for survival, whether God makes the changes or the cells do it themselves.

DAVID: The bold is your usual scurry back to pure unproven Darwinism. Living creatures like living and try to survive. That is all the quest for survival can tell us about evolution.

dhw: Their efforts to survive lead to the adaptations and innovations that result in speciation. Speciation IS evolution.

DAVID: Pure unadulterated Darwinism again. Modifications by existing organisms leading to speciation is pure unproven theory.

Speciation by definition means that one life form changes into another life form. What is “pure unproven theory” is how it happens. As for improving chances of survival, what other purpose could there be for land-based legs to change or be changed into flippers? Once more, it is absurd to argue that the changes which result in speciation are made for the purpose of improving chances of survival, but improving chances of survival has no connection with speciation.

Retinal design allows prediction of movement

dhw: According to you, your God either preprogrammed or dabbled every step in the evolution of all species. How does this come to mean “a complex plan cannot be stepwise”? The point of your original comment was that if retinal design “required stepwise development over massive amounts of time, hunting animals would not have survived to evolve the process”. Hence my reply at the top of this entry on retinal design, and my now bolded question concerning degrees of vision etc. –[ do you think your God stepped in to adjust the different degrees of vision, hearing and smell?] Do please answer it.

DAVID: Your bold asks how God did the designs, and I have constantly instructed you in understanding how designers look at future uses and needs and do complete designs to fit those requirements. Not Darwinism 'bit by bit' but the opposite approach of all at once.

You have constantly dodged from all at once to step by step. Your “instruction” concerning future design boiled down to the fact that when you designed your house, you took into consideration what changes might be made to it later. Hardly comparable to the question of why and how speciation takes place. You argue that your God changes organisms in advance of the need for change. I argue that changes take place in response to current needs. Example: your God changes legs to flippers in before pre-whales enter the water. My theory is that legs change into flippers after pre-whales enter the water, i.e. in response to the new requirements. (Your God may have given them the ability to make such changes – (see the ID thread).