Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Sunday, June 06, 2021, 09:23 (1264 days ago) @ David Turell

Fungi helped plants
dhw: Please tell us which part of the adaptation process takes place independently of your God.

DAVID: My view is it more like an algorithm. With this stimulation use that solution.

dhw: This means your God has provided all organisms with a list of every single problem they will encounter for the rest of time, plus every single solution to every problem. It’s not clear from your post whether he also tells them which solution to choose (= no independence whatsoever), or they have to go through the whole list and pick the one that fits, by which time they’ll probably be dead anyway. I prefer your first answer: your God provides the mechanism, and they decide how to use it – which entails all the intelligent processes I have listed.

DAVID: The differing stimuli for plants is quite small: hot, cold, wet, dry , sun direction, bugs nibbling, fungi on roots helping. Your mountain is a molehill.

I am proposing that adaptation by plants and animals and even bacteria follows the same procedure: the cells make changes to cope with (or exploit) the new conditions. The different stimuli (including both dangers and opportunities) and the different problems have been changing through the 3.8 thousand million years of life’s history. According to you, the “molehills” become mountains if cells have to cope with or exploit them on their own – only your God can dabble or preprogramme the changes: even for minor changes he now has to provide an “algorithm” covering every eventuality! Why don’t you stick to your original, perfectly straightforward agreement that your God provided the mechanisms for change and “the organisms then use them independently as minor adaptations are required by changes”? Independence does not mean obeying instructions or choosing the right answer from a list of possible answers provided by your God. Finally, do you agree that the processing of information, intercommunication and decision-making are signs of intelligence?

Clear evidence of common descent
DAVID: I explain evolution as the work of God. You describe its appearance as history.

dhw: We both agree that the history is a bush of life with countless branches. I have no problem with the proposal that your God designed it that way. The difference between us is…SEE BOLDED THEORY. [Your God’s only purpose was to design H. sapiens, and so he individually designed millions of life forms, ecosystems, natural wonders etc., 99% of which had no connection with humans). And while I believe in the continuity of common descent, i.e. all species (except the very first cells) descending from earlier species, you believe your God created each one de novo, and for you this constitutes continuity.

DAVID: God makes it continuous.

How can it be continuous if he created every species de novo?