Miscellany (General)

by David Turell , Monday, July 12, 2021, 16:17 (1020 days ago) @ dhw

Phase precession

DAVID: Same totally illogical complaint. Evolution from bacteria to us is shown in the known history you seem reject. My God creates this history you reject.

dhw: Evolution from bacteria to every other life form that ever existed is shown in the known history, but you claim that every other life form was “part of the goal of evolving [= specially designing] humans” plus their lunch, and you have no idea why your God chose specially to design all those that had no connection with humans and their lunch. That is why you continue to edit your theory by leaving out those parts of it which make no sense even to you.

My thoughts about God leave nothing out. Somehow you edit out that evolution is a stepwise continuous process from simple to complex, and humans are the endpoint. All preceding us was and is required. Your bold makes no sense if viewed from my standpoint

Otters

DAVID: Cells are simply following instructions for epigenetic changes.

dhw: The suggestion was that intelligent cells designed the adaptations, and you said yes. Now you are saying no. Please clarify what your "yes" refers to.

DAVID: My statement just above, my always view.

dhw: So it’s yes, your God designed the intelligent cells that designed the adaptations, but no, he didn’t design intelligent cells, he gave them instructions on what to do. I find your logic pretty baffling.

Why baffled? Long ago we agreed either cells are innately intelligent or they follow intelligent instructions. Your choice of interpretation and mine differ.

Dying cells protect living ones
dhw: Self-organizing and communicating with one another. Some would say these are signs of intelligence.

DAVID: Or intelligently designed processes.

dhw: I can understand the argument that the tools for self-organization and communication may have been designed, but perhaps you can explain how do-it-yourselfers’ actions, plus all the necessary messages between all the doers, can have been designed beforehand. The article itself says there is no need for a conductor to give instructions – so that would leave you with your 3.8-billion-year-programme for every dying cell to come. A little far-fetched even for you?

DAVID: Your imagination of my God is He cannot program as He wishes the intelligently designed instructions and processes. Remember God is the designer of reality.

dhw: For argument’s sake, I am leaving aside my agnosticism and discussing a possible God’s possible purpose and nature. In my view, a possible God would be perfectly capable of designing instructions and programmes etc. But if his one and only purpose was to design humans and their lunch, I don’t understand why he would first programme or dabble [= individually design] vast numbers of life forms and lunches that had no connection with humans. I even doubt whether the current weaverbird’s nest and ant bridges and termite mounds and the Covid virus are essential for the existence and nourishment of us humans. And so I propose that a possible God might possibly have given life forms and viruses the ability to design their own means of survival. But “your imagination” of a possible God is that he cannot or would not design anything with an inventive mind of its own, apart from us humans. Why not?

As explained elsewhere today, it all depends on how you view God. All of life contributes to food supply for all which you constantly try to ignore. You have again raised to issue of why didn't God just create us directly without all the rest of evolved life. He didn't. It is your issue alone.