Miscellany (General)

by David Turell @, Sunday, July 18, 2021, 15:35 (186 days ago) @ dhw

Humans correcting errors

DAVID: That is why I consider His dabbles as necessary. The human brain didn't just appear. I view it as a God design.

dhw: According to you, there are no life forms, econiches, natural wonders etc. that “just appeared” – you view them all as God’s designs. Have you now discarded the 3.8-billion-year-old programme altogether? This would suggest that your God was constantly at work designing and directing absolutely everything bit by bit from the first cells to trilobites, dinosaurs, mosquitoes, the duckbilled platypus, ant bridges and the weaverbird’s nest – and all as “part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” and their lunch. You don’t find this a little far-fetched?

My view of God's powers is not far-fetched. I firmly accept that God designs the complexity of living biochemistry

Detergent defenses

DAVID: You didn't answer the requirement for cells, producing two processes at once, untested for worthiness.

dhw: I don’t understand what you mean. My proposal is that whenever a new threat appears, the cells work out a defence. This may take time – it is a sequence: problem first, solution second. The two processes only exist at once after the solution has been designed.

Again a non-answer which is not deliberate. It shows me you do not understand the problem. The bacteria making the new detergent will kill itself without a built-in protective mechanism. It must invent both simultaneously to be a successful advance. That must require new information developed in its DNA (think Shapiro) for both new processes. No time for trial and error over survival steps, per Darwin. Design, all at once, is the only fit, logically.

DAVID: You bring up the point of whether God is in control completely or not. I favor full control.

dhw: I know you do. You challenged my proposal, and so I am asking why you think your God is incapable of designing cellular intelligence that can recode DNA and create new information.

It requires a mind which can see the future consequences of detergent action and how to protect itself from the effects.

Immunity system complexity
dhw: Cells having the ability to mutate (change themselves) and to ”perfect” their response to different demands is of course crucial to the theory of evolution by way of cellular intelligence. It is clear from this process that the solution to the problem is NOT already there: it is the mechanism for solving the problem that is there.

DAVID: Exactly, the cells contain information/instructions from God in their DNA's as to how to do it.

dhw:...Why do you totally reject the simplest explanation: that your God (theistic version) gave all organisms, from single cells to the most complex cell communities, the ability (i.e. intelligence) to solve problems as and when they arose without his having to do all the work himself?

I've just shown you immune cells are programmed to protect us without God stepping in each time we get sick. Many parts of our bodies work just that way

New life evolves earth’s climate
QUOTE: However, this climate instability, in turn, helps to accelerate evolution." (David’s bold)

DAVID: note the bold. Of course changing climate changes the course of evolution. This brings me back to the proposal I've presented. God works to creates our reality by evolving each part, the universe from the Big Bang, the Earth from its origin and life from its.[som From this article we see Earth-Life-Climate co-evolvement.

dhw: I don’t think even the most ardent atheist would disagree that evolution, Earth, life and climate are inextricably linked

My main point you missed, or I poorly referred to it, is: God prefers to create by evolution of all aspects of reality. Explains why He evolved us. Only the BB is direct creation, as an initiation must be.

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