Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by dhw, Monday, May 10, 2021, 13:01 (1291 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Correct. Once more: some cells (we don’t know which ones) BECAME redundant AFTER complexification had tailored our brain to cope with new requirements. The new cells did not arrive as “excess, redundant”.

DAVID: The major expansion from erectus to sapiens was frontal lobes. The other areas of the brain, as in all other animals with brains, have to do with running the bodies motion. picking up incoming sensations, stimulating reproduction. The reduction from new uses was also frontal lobe dealing with abstractive thought. The hippocampus grew.

Thank you for this description of what happened. I am delighted to see that you are no longer insisting that the new cells were already redundant when they arrived, or that they were the cells that became redundant after enhanced complexification. We now appear to be in agreement.

dhw: So there is a mechanism which enables cells to be aware of requirements and to make their own decisions. Do you agree or disagree that these autonomous abilities denote intelligence? [..] (See below)

DAVID: […]Future loss of neurons means the big brain started bigger and then shrunk with new uses and complexification discarded excess neurons. Didn't the brain shrink?

dhw: Of course if the brain shrunk it was bigger before it shrunk! And I have been telling you for months that it shrunk because the efficiency of enhanced complexification made certain cells redundant – in direct contrast to your constantly repeated claim that the new cells were redundant from the start and those same cells were discarded later.

DAVID: We don't know which were new cells and don't know if they were the ones discarded.

Correct. Thank you for agreeing.

DAVID: Excess cells were available for use from the beginning of the sapiens brain. That is my key point.

Back you go to your insistence that the new cells were excess. You have agreed that they were used. If they were used, they were not excess!

DAVID: Since complexification got rid of 150 cc of cells, old or new is of no matter.

It was you who insisted that the new cells were redundant from the beginning, and that this tied in with them being the cells which were discarded later. You have now acknowledged that the new cells were not redundant at the beginning, and we do not know which cells were made redundant. That should be the end of this particular discussion.

DAVID: The intelligence in your question is from the intelligent instructions the brain cells followed given by God.

dhw: Same woolly “intelligent instructions” as in the following (from “Miscellany”):

Plants sense what’s happening

dhw: If plants are sentient. can work out solutions and communicate with other plants, I’d say that = a form of intelligence.

DAVID: Or simply following God's intelligent instructions.

dhw: Please be more precise. Do your God’s “intelligent instructions” present plants with the exact solution to every problem they will ever encounter, or with the means of finding their own solutions and taking their own decisions?

DAVID: God speciates and allows them to create minor necessary adaptions through Lamarck-like methylation of DNA, microevolution.

Not what I was asking. If an organism is aware of conditions (sentient), works out solutions to new problems, and communicates with other organisms, would you agree that these abilities denote a form of autonomous intelligence, or do you believe your God gives them “intelligent instructions” on how to solve each new problem and what to “tell” other plants?