Evolution: neutral theory (Evolution)
QUOTE: Kimura posited that most of the variation between organisms is neither advantageous nor disadvantageous. Consequently, most of the variety we see isn’t a product of the hidden hand of selection but rather of luck.
QUOTE: "This kind of chance evolution is the purview of neutral theory, the historically controversial idea that “survival of the fittest” isn’t the only, or even the most common, way that species change, split or disappear.”
DAVID: It seems to me since natural selection acts only on what it is given to act upon that the theories are compatible. It doesn't explain speciation but it dos explain variations that can appear.
dhw: The first quote only mentions variations, but the whole article lays emphasis on luck and randomness, and the second quote simply creates a false dichotomy, which can be applied to speciation as well as variation. Randomness creates different conditions (unless you believe your God organizes every change), but the process of adaptation is not random and is geared to the ability (or inability) to survive in those conditions! In my own theory, this also encompasses IMPROVING the ability to survive (innovation). And so random conditions and “survival of the fittest” are partners in the process, not alternatives, and variations survive because they are advantageous in whatever conditions have randomly arisen. The interplay is well illustrated if we slightly change this example:
QUOTE: "Imagine a population of 10 birds: one red, one green and all the rest brown. These colors aren’t harmful or helpful, so all the birds have the same chance of reproducing. Then a tornado kills six of the brown birds, purely by chance. Now half the population is brown, a quarter is red and a quarter is green. A random event caused a major shift in diversity. That’s genetic drift.
dhw: This is a special instance of variation, but a far more likely example would be an environment in which brown provides better camouflage against predators. The conditions may be a matter of luck, but the survival of the brown birds is not random. The “hidden hand of selection” is completely out in the open: the colour improves (is advantageous for) the brown birds’ chances of survival. Again, we have luck, advantage and the survival principle working together.
All good theories, but neutral theory and genetic drift theory don't tell us how speciation happens. Thoughts about a designer still apply .
Complete thread:
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-02, 12:56
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
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- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
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2017-09-21, 13:06
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dhw,
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2017-10-03, 14:22
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- Evolution: the newly-found bacterial role: -
David Turell,
2019-08-12, 15:29
- Evolution: the newly-found bacterial role: -
dhw,
2019-08-12, 12:36
- Evolution: the newly-found bacterial role: -
David Turell,
2019-08-11, 15:35
- Evolution: the newly-found bacterial role: -
dhw,
2019-08-11, 11:24
- Evolution: microbiome of coral -
David Turell,
2018-11-24, 19:20
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
dhw,
2018-10-26, 11:31
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
David Turell,
2018-10-25, 18:46
- Evolution: ribosomes flexible, ancient - David Turell, 2018-11-17, 19:10
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
dhw,
2018-10-25, 11:21
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
David Turell,
2018-10-24, 18:40
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
dhw,
2018-10-24, 11:23
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
David Turell,
2018-10-23, 15:14
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
dhw,
2018-10-23, 12:44
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
David Turell,
2018-10-18, 00:51
- Evolution: very early whale with useful legs -
David Turell,
2019-04-04, 22:34
- Evolution: very early whale with useful legs -
dhw,
2019-04-05, 09:52
- Evolution: very early whale with useful legs -
David Turell,
2019-04-05, 15:06
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-27, 00:27
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-27, 18:40
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-27, 22:50
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-28, 10:58
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-28, 18:30
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-29, 08:43
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-29, 19:43
- Evolution: whale echolocation ability - David Turell, 2019-11-01, 21:19
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-29, 19:43
- Evolution: blue whale adaptive cardiac changes - David Turell, 2019-11-26, 01:52
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-29, 08:43
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-28, 18:30
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-28, 10:58
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-27, 22:50
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
dhw,
2019-09-27, 18:40
- Evolution: whale adaptive losses and changes -
David Turell,
2019-09-27, 00:27
- Evolution: very early whale with useful legs -
David Turell,
2019-04-05, 15:06
- Evolution: very early whale with useful legs -
dhw,
2019-04-05, 09:52
- Evolution: new transitional whale -
David Turell,
2019-12-12, 15:13
- Evolution: food supply limits whale size -
David Turell,
2019-12-12, 20:08
- Evolution: possible role of stem cells (promised find) - David Turell, 2019-12-12, 20:40
- Evolution: food supply limits whale size -
dhw,
2019-12-13, 12:43
- Evolution: food supply limits whale size -
David Turell,
2019-12-13, 13:52
- Evolution: genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2020-08-19, 22:54
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-11, 15:58
- Evolution:strange DNA shapes increase mutation rate - David Turell, 2021-02-11, 19:23
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-12, 10:56
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-12, 15:38
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-13, 12:03
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-13, 18:04
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-14, 15:41
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-14, 17:47
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-15, 12:12
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-15, 12:16
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-15, 22:33
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-16, 12:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-16, 17:44
- Evolution: always advancing or not? -
David Turell,
2021-02-16, 18:20
- Evolution: physical change in speciation, brain control - David Turell, 2021-02-16, 19:20
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-17, 13:24
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-17, 18:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-18, 11:08
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-18, 17:55
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-19, 10:55
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-19, 19:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-20, 10:46
- Evolution: genomic evidence of parasitic help -
David Turell,
2021-02-20, 15:36
- Evolution: genomic evidence of parasitic help - David Turell, 2021-02-23, 20:37
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-20, 21:31
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-21, 11:02
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-21, 21:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-22, 13:14
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-22, 18:29
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-23, 12:14
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-23, 16:12
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-24, 12:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-24, 15:15
- Evolution: cetaceans get much less cancer - David Turell, 2021-02-24, 22:34
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-25, 12:39
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-25, 23:40
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-26, 14:08
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-26, 15:37
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-27, 09:04
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-27, 14:39
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-28, 09:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-28, 15:27
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-01, 13:19
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-01, 15:59
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-02, 13:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-02, 15:34
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-03, 11:22
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-03, 16:15
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-04, 11:34
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-04, 15:31
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-05, 11:56
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-05, 15:25
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-05, 15:25
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-05, 11:56
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-04, 15:31
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-04, 11:34
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-03, 16:15
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-03, 11:22
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-02, 15:34
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-02, 13:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-03-01, 15:59
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-03-01, 13:19
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-28, 15:27
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-28, 09:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-27, 14:39
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-27, 09:04
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-26, 15:37
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-26, 14:08
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-25, 23:40
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-24, 15:15
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-24, 12:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-23, 16:12
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-23, 12:14
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-22, 18:29
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-22, 13:14
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-21, 21:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-21, 11:02
- Evolution: genomic evidence of parasitic help -
David Turell,
2021-02-20, 15:36
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-20, 10:46
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-19, 19:00
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-19, 10:55
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-18, 17:55
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-18, 11:08
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-17, 18:07
- Evolution: always advancing or not? -
David Turell,
2021-02-16, 18:20
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-16, 17:44
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-16, 12:07
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-15, 22:33
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-15, 12:16
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-15, 12:12
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-14, 17:47
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-14, 15:41
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-13, 18:04
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
dhw,
2021-02-13, 12:03
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-12, 15:38
- Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2021-02-11, 15:58
- Evolution: genomic evidence of pre-planning -
David Turell,
2020-08-19, 22:54
- Evolution: food supply limits whale size -
David Turell,
2019-12-13, 13:52
- Evolution: food supply limits whale size -
David Turell,
2019-12-12, 20:08
- Evolution: more gaps in foraminifera -
David Turell,
2018-10-17, 22:10
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
dhw,
2018-08-19, 10:39
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
David Turell,
2018-08-18, 15:25
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
dhw,
2018-08-18, 07:27
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
David Turell,
2018-08-17, 15:26
- Evolution: corn plant pest adaptation -
David Turell,
2018-08-16, 19:46
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
Balance_Maintained,
2018-08-16, 12:41
- Evolution: whales defy explanation -
dhw,
2018-08-16, 11:48
- Evolution: insect explosion much like the Cambrian -
David Turell,
2018-05-14, 21:00
- Evolution: baleen whales once had teeth -
David Turell,
2018-05-10, 20:24
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
David Turell,
2018-03-30, 14:47
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
dhw,
2018-03-30, 12:45
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
David Turell,
2018-03-29, 15:18
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
dhw,
2018-03-29, 09:25
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
David Turell,
2018-03-28, 15:09
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
dhw,
2018-03-28, 12:22
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
David Turell,
2018-03-27, 14:40
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
dhw,
2018-03-27, 13:00
- Evolution: whales and hippos related? More relationships -
David Turell,
2018-03-26, 23:14
- Evolution: trying to mutate a protein -
David Turell,
2017-11-10, 05:36
- Evolution: chance, contingent or convergent -
David Turell,
2017-10-27, 01:28
- Evolution: networks of coevolution -
David Turell,
2017-10-18, 20:00
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-28, 14:34
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-28, 13:02
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-27, 17:25
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-27, 10:56
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-26, 17:19
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-26, 12:14
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-25, 16:13
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-25, 13:24
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-24, 14:50
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-24, 13:26
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-23, 14:45
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-23, 12:54
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-22, 15:11
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-22, 13:15
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-21, 15:12
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-21, 12:58
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-20, 14:59
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-20, 13:31
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-19, 14:54
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-19, 11:47
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-18, 15:34
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-18, 10:04
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-17, 15:19
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-17, 10:34
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-16, 14:59
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-16, 12:58
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-15, 15:07
- Evolution: frog adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-15, 13:37
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-14, 16:08
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-14, 13:19
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-14, 01:34
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-13, 13:30
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-12, 15:32
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-12, 12:07
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-11, 17:59
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-10, 15:30
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-10, 13:55
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-09, 14:45
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-09, 10:42
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-08, 21:00
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-08, 14:21
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-07, 14:36
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-07, 10:52
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-06, 15:11
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-06, 13:38
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-05, 17:51
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-05, 13:32
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-04, 17:18
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-04, 15:02
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-03, 15:56
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
dhw,
2017-09-03, 14:12
- Evolution, survival and adaptation -
David Turell,
2017-09-02, 15:20