Evolution: whales defy explanation (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, August 18, 2018, 07:27 (2288 days ago) @ David Turell

TONY: Note the authors comment on the lack of transitional fossils, and the implications for the two theories you mention here.

dhw: There are several transitional fossils. Here is a website that traces the history:
The evolution of whales - Understanding Evolution
www.evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03
But of course that doesn’t explain what mechanism enables organisms to undergo such radical changes. Starting out from the basic premise of design, which is common to the two theories I have mentioned, please tell us your own theory.

DAVID: Thank you. 'Radical change' is the issue, and the requirement for design! The first orbiting humans were in a capsule that required much consideration aforethought before it was created. Note that whale changes are certainly a biological equivalent.

I keep saying radical change is the issue, and I keep acknowledging the need for design, but not the kind of preprogrammed or dabbled design you propose. I suggest that if your God can invent a mechanism for human invention, he could also invent a mechanism for invention by other life forms.

DAVID: If whales require design, there must be a designing mind to foresee all the reasons for the complex changes. On-board cells couldn't possibly have reasonably inventive ideas.

dhw: Once again you insist that all the changes had to be foreseen, with your God initially fiddling with the anatomy before the pre-whale even entered the water. (Presumably the subsequent fiddles came after the pre-whale had entered the water. Did he realize bit by bit that his design could be improved?) My proposal is that the pre-whale had good reason to enter the water (food), and all the subsequent changes were made to improve its adaptation to aquatic life. Not foreseeing problems but reacting to problems.

DAVID: But the fossil show giant changes, not explained by your just-so story.

There is as yet no universally accepted story of any kind to explain giant changes, but that is no answer to my point that my hypothesis is based mainly on responses to environmental conditions and therefore NOT on foresight. I note that you do not answer my question concerning your God’s “foresight” in relation to the different stages of pre-whale evolution. Dismissing my hypothesis as a just-so story is on the same level as dismissing God as a delusion. Not a level I would wish to stay on.

***Under “CORN PLANT PEST ADAPTATION”
DAVID’s comment: This is an amazing adaptation the larvae worked out.

dhw: Yes indeed. It is amazing how even little larvae can work out their own ways to improve their chances of survival.

DAVID: Note Tony's programming comment.

I preferred your own “the larvae worked it out” comment. Delighted to have you on my side at last.