Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, April 29, 2021, 16:58 (1302 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The brain is not a factory with fixed machines. The brain was given innate plasticity so the excess cells could be jettisoned when those cells finally needed were reorganized into the best efficiency.

dhw: An exact parallel to the plasticity of staffing: when a more efficient method is developed, excess staff are made redundant. Neither the original staff nor the original cells were excessive until a more efficient method took over from the original method.

Note you have used the word excess.

DAVID: And I believe God speciates.

dhw: That is not an answer. You agree that the modern brain complexifies and in one case (hippocampus) expands autonomously, and past brains would have operated in the same way. Therefore (theistic version) your God’s role would have been to design the mechanism that gave all brains their autonomy. What method can you conceive of, other than cellular intelligence?

I don't accept innate cellular intelligence. Cells give the appearance of intelligence as they follow intelligent instructions/information .

DAVID (taken from “Miscellany”): It is a mechanism coded into our DNA under God's control. As a result our cells look and act intelligently following God's implanted information.”

dhw: You have agreed that our brains complexify and expand autonomously. “Autonomy” does not mean “under God’s control”. “Coded into our DNA” and “implanted information” must therefore refer to the means whereby your God gave our brains that autonomy.

I've never agreed to species brain expansion as autonomous, only very local enlargement of already enlarged brains in a new species..

.dhw: In our next exchange, you even tell us that the neurons made the decision to jettison excess cells. God’s didn’t instruct them to do it. The cells did it. The point you make is irrelevant to the argument about “excess”, but in the context of intelligence, how else could cells take such decisions autonomously if they were not intelligent?

DAVID: There can be no denying extra neurons were always present, and my interpretation grants they might have had some light use while they remained, but the excess neurons allowed us to remodel our brains to fit the heavy uses we learned to employ, language, abstract ideas, mathematics with invented number systems, etc.

dhw: They were not “excess” (= unnecessary) if they enabled us to remodel our brains! They only became “excess” when remodelling in the form of enhanced complexification was able to cope with all the new requirements with such efficiency that they were no longer needed.

DAVID: How do you know the excess cells played a role in deciding to discard themselves? I would think the remaining reorganized neurons did the job.

Full misinterpretation again in the bold above. Our current neurons have a complexification mechanism, we both recognize, to do the job, a system designed by God.

dhw: I have not said which cells made the decision! I have only said that some cells were not needed when enhanced complexification coped with all the new requirements. Only then did they become “excess”, whereas you keep telling us they were “excess” right from the start.

I've given you the point they may have had light uses from the beginning, but were always intended by God to be excessive.

DAVID: So heavily used brains are now 150 cc smaller. Making extras cells slightly useful in the beginning and then discarding them after complexification makes them an excess group of cells, used and then discarded.

dhw: Yet again: they were not “slightly useful” in the beginning. They were essential. If they hadn’t been essential, they would not have been added in the first place. And they would have continued to fulfil the same essential function until, as you rightly put it, complexification made them unnecessary or “excessive” to our needs. I make that four times in one post. Five times tomorrow?

DAVID: If you would accept God's role the repeats are unnecessary. We will continue to interpret the known facts from different viewpoints.

dhw: If you would accept your own agreement that past brains would have functioned in the same way as modern brains, by way of autonomous complexification and expansion, and your God would not have lumbered brains with unnecessary cells, and therefore his role would have been to design the mechanism that gave autonomy to the brain, I would not have to keep knocking down the straw men you keep erecting in order to justify your interpretation of God’s role in evolution.

I clearly see God's role.