Evolution, survival and adaptation (Evolution)

by David Turell , Saturday, September 16, 2017, 15:17 (2623 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I don't view myself as shifting at all in my basic premise that God is in charge. And we agree He uses an evolutionary mechanism that creates a marvelously inventive bush of life.

dhw: If God exists, then of course he is in charge, and of course we agree that he used evolution, and of course we agree that evolution has resulted in a great big bush. Where we don’t agree is that God personally designed every twig of the bush although his prime purpose was to produce Homo sapiens and his brain. THAT is the theory you keep trying to consolidate, and in doing so find yourself shifting ground with every anomaly it throws up.

You cannot get around the evidence that the pinnacle of evolution is the human brain, making it an obvious goal. That is all the evidence I need. Look at your own words. If He used evolution and it created a great bush, it was His work. all perfectly logical.

DAVID: We both know God is hidden. You can't find Him at all. As for the bush I've accepted God's approach of evolving complex organisms rather than the six day Genesis story. Note He had first to evolve a universe with exploding stars to spread around the necessary life-creating element molecules from their fiery fusion furnaces. God evolves what He wants to create. That conclusion cannot be avoided.

dhw: As above, the question concerns what he wanted to create. With my theist hat on, I suggest he wanted to create an ever changing show which perhaps he continues to watch. You suggest he wanted to create Homo sapiens, you don’t know why he had to create a higgledy-piggledy bush of whales and monarchs and weaverbirds’ nests and hominins in order to get there, and he’s hidden himself because…well, why has he hidden himself, and is he watching or not?

I recognize those are your questions which keep you agnostic. Accepting God's existence does away with your issues. How logical is God in human terms? Perhaps not at all.

DAVID: You are touting purpose, which is fine sounding, but it is obvious that speciation requires foresight and planning by a mental process, in God's brain.

dhw: God’s brain (does he have one?) could have provided the mental process by which organisms work out their own path to speciation. And that process can be one of response and not crystal-ball gazing.

You can't build a house without a plan. Crystal-ball gazing is required. "Their own path to speciation" response must be a step by step attempt, which cannot produce highly complex physiology or phenotypic change all at once, as the fossil gaps show. You cannot avoid the need for design.