Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, May 09, 2021, 14:06 (1083 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: It took a while to persuade you that the cells were used, and you are still telling us that they were excessive from the beginning (“excess cells were on board the moment sapiens big brain arrived”), which means they were NOT used! And you are still saying it was the new cells that were eventually discarded, whereas we don’t know which cells were discarded.

DAVID: That 150 cc of cells were eventually discarded can only mean they were excessive for future use.

Correct. 150 cc of cells (we don't know which cells) were discarded when they eventually BECAME excessive for future use. This is in direct contrast to your constantly repeated assertion that the cells were already excessive “the moment sapiens big brain arrived”.

DAVID: It doesn't matter which cells were discarded as beside the point of this discussion. Lightly used cells became useless and were removed by complexification.

It matters because of your constantly repeated assertion that the cells your God planted in the brains of the sleeping Moroccans were excessive at the beginning (“Our big brain arrived with excess, redundant cells”) and that the same cells were discarded later (“God planned for them to be eventually discarded”) 1) The new cells were not excessive at the beginning, because you agree that they were used, and 2) we do not know if the new cells ever became excessive.

DAVID: What you object to is my concept of God knowing in advance those extra cells would become excess cells […] as we got to really use our brains and complexification tailored our brain to our preferred usages. A prime example of God's pre-planning.

dhw: Once more: we do not know if the extra cells later became excessive,....More muddle.

DAVID: Your muddle. There was shrinkage after complexification tailored our brain to our use creating excess cells/neurons.

Correct. Once more: some cells (we don’t know which ones) BECAME redundant AFTER complexification had tailored our brain to cope with new requirements. The new cells did not arrive as “excess, redundant”.

DAVID: God's instructions allowed the cells to have autonomous actions following the given information with the cells God-given decoding ability.

dhw: In plain English, your God gave cells the ability to complexify and expand without his interference. These autonomous actions could only take place if cells were aware of requirements and were able to take the decisions necessary to meet those requirements. Once again, thank you for accepting my theory. Do you agree or disagree that autonomous awareness and decision-making denote intelligence?

DAVID: The cells knew what to do in complexification from God's instructions.

dhw: In other words, your God created the mechanism enabling them to decide what to do.

DAVID: Of course.

dhw: So there is a mechanism which enables cells to be aware of requirements and to make their own decisions. Do you agree or disagree that these autonomous abilities denote intelligence? [..] (See below)

DAVID: […]Future loss of neurons means the big brain started bigger and then shrunk with new uses and complexification discarded excess neurons. Didn't the brain shrink?

Of course if the brain shrunk it was bigger before it shrunk! And I have been telling you for months that it shrunk because the efficiency of enhanced complexification made certain cells redundant – in direct contrast to your constantly repeated claim that the new cells were redundant from the start and those same cells were discarded later.

DAVID: The intelligence in your question is from the intelligent instructions the brain cells followed given by God.

Same woolly “intelligent instructions” as in the following (from “Miscellany”):

Plants sense what’s happening
dhw: If plants are sentient. can work out solutions and communicate with other plants, I’d say that = a form of intelligence.

DAVID: Or simply following God's intelligent instructions.

Please be more precise. Do your God’s “intelligent instructions” present plants with the exact solution to every problem they will ever encounter, or with the means of finding their own solutions and taking their own decisions?