Evolution: whales defy explanation (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, August 17, 2018, 15:26 (2288 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: This is just the reason I've always bring up whales. They defy any naturally-based theory.

They also defy any supernaturally-based theory, as does the whole of evolution. You need faith to believe in any of the explanations offered.

TONY: Note the authors comment on the lack of transitional fossils, and the implications for the two theories you mention here.

dhw: There are several transitional fossils. Here is a website that traces the history:
The evolution of whales - Understanding Evolution
www.evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

But of course that doesn’t explain what mechanism enables organisms to undergo such radical changes. Starting out from the basic premise of design, which is common to the two theories I have mentioned, please tell us your own theory.

Thank you. 'Radical change' is the issue, and the requirement for design! The first orbiting humans were in a capsule that required much consideration aforethought before it was created. Note that whale changes are certainly a biological equivalent.

DAVID: If whales require design, there must be a designing mind to foresee all the reasons for the complex changes. On-board cells couldn't possibly have reasonably inventive ideas.

dhw: Once again you insist that all the changes had to be foreseen, with your God initially fiddling with the anatomy before the pre-whale even entered the water. (Presumably the subsequent fiddles came after the pre-whale had entered the water. Did he realize bit by bit that his design could be improved?) My proposal is that the pre-whale had good reason to enter the water (food), and all the subsequent changes were made to improve its adaptation to aquatic life. Not foreseeing problems but reacting to problems.

But the fossil show giant changes, not explained by your just-so story.

DAVID: Your faith in cellular intelligence able to design complex stages of whale descent more than equals any faith in a designing mind.

dhw: It is a hypothesis not a faith, but if I had faith in a designing mind, I would have faith that the designing mind is perfectly capable of designing other designing minds in the form of cells/cell communities. We know that these adapt.*** The idea that they may also invent provides an explanation for the higgledy-piggledy history of life as we know it. The idea that your God personally preprogrammed every undabbled innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder 3.8 billion years ago seems to me less likely as an explanation of that higgledy-piggledy history.

You stick to it just as if it were faith.

***Under “CORN PLANT PEST ADAPTATION”
DAVID’s comment: This is an amazing adaptation the larvae worked out.

dhw: Yes indeed. It is amazing how even little larvae can work out their own ways to improve their chances of survival.

Note Tony's programming comment.