Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, April 18, 2021, 12:29 (1313 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Our fresh new brain had lots of new extra cells, never used until much later in specialized areas of the frontal and prefrontal lobes with intricate five special layers of neurons in a special tandem network. This allowed our new abstractions of thought that we are familiar with now.

dhw: How on earth can you possibly know that the new extra cells – which I propose were NEEDED in order to meet the new requirements – were never used? What would have changed after 250,000 years was the manner in which the neurons combined to form new connections. You persist in ignoring the very clear statement I quoted earlier: “…what sets us apart from other mammals is not so much brain size but reorganization of our brains in terms of connectivity and neurotransmitter changes.” This is what would have happened when the existing extra (but NOT excessive) cells could no longer cope with the new requirements.

DAVID: How do you know all those excess cells were needed at the time of sapiens appearance? Just because they were there?

I’ve just asked you how you know they were NOT needed! This is the basic difference between our theories! You say the extra cells were given in anticipation of future use (though they turned out not to be needed), and I say they were added because they were needed at the time, and only became unnecessary when complexification made them redundant. The only clue we have is the way the modern brain works, which is by RESPONDING to new needs. It RESPONDS by complexifying, although the hippocampus has expanded. We do not know of any instance in which the brain complexifies/expands in anticipation of some unknown future requirement. Why do you continue to ignore this argument?

DAVID: Apes, our ancestors, are not experiencing consciousness...

Manifestly untrue. Do you really think that apes are machines which are totally unaware of their surroundings, of dangers, of their own needs? There are different forms and levels of consciousness!

DAVID: (...) but it had to appear in early hominin or later homo forms as the brain enlarged and became more complexly wired and arranged as we are in tiered neuron groups. That had to precede the development of language which allowed us to exchange complex abstractions which was followed by full use of the entire new brain form and loss of volume 150 cc and contained neuron networks. You can't realistically explain the excess brain in the beginning any other way.

You just keep repeating “excess”, but none of the general “history” you have presented means there was excess at any time, including our own until enhanced complexification took over from expansion, and then I propose that cells which had been essential in the past were no longer required. Even with your own theory, why would your all-knowing, always-in-control God give us excess cells which turn out to be redundant? […]

DAVID: […] You are simply assuming the neurons knew how to rearrange and rewire themselves as we left apedom.

I assume nothing. I offer a theory. And yes, I am proposing, as you well know, that cells are intelligent enough to know when they need reinforcements (expansion) or new connections and functions (complexification). This theory allows for the existence of your God as designer of cellular intelligence, as well as fitting in perfectly with the history of life in general and the brain in particular, which we know makes changes to itself IN RESPONSE to new requirements and not in anticipation of them (a point which you always ignore).

dhw: […] apart from repeating your own preconceptions, you still haven’t given me one logical reason for rejecting this proposal.

DAVID: My rejection is based on your humanized view of what God might do. While you are theorizing you can make God into anything you wish. You never bring up my view of God.

I have spent years discussing your view of God, whom you can make into anything you wish. Your own humanized view, give or take innumerable fluctuations and contradictions, appears to be that he started out with only one purpose (us), is always in control (except when he is not in control), specially designed every life form, econiche, strategy, natural wonder etc. (99% of which had no connection with humans), must have had good reasons for designing the bacteria and viruses that cause untold suffering and death, preprogrammed or dabbled every development – including our brain – in anticipation of what would one day be required, because he always knows what is coming, and enjoys creating but not in any way that we might be able to understand. Meanwhile, I offer alternative views, but you “never consider him experimenting” etc., and if you never consider alternatives, then apparently that means they must be wrong!