Evolution, survival and adaptation (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, September 19, 2017, 11:53 (2620 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: We know he's there because only a designing mind could have created life. We don't know if He is watching, but since He is in charge, I'm sure he is. Why create and not watch the outcomes?

We don’t “know” anything, but if he is there, and you believe he is watching but stays hidden, is it not possible that he started the show off because he wanted a show he could watch? What do you think would be more interesting: a lot of robots doing precisely what you have instructed them to do, or a free-for-all with unpredictable outcomes?

dhw: Design occurs through intelligence, and I am proposing that all organisms are intelligent in their own particular way. Who says I don’t like the concept of God? I am an agnostic, not an atheist. I do not “want a mechanism that appears by itself by chance”! Its origin is a mystery, which is why I always specify that the mechanism may have been invented by your God. This is the unworthy digression you always indulge in when I challenge your version of how evolution works and of what your God’s purpose might be. That is why I put on my theist’s hat, so that we can begin with the same basic premise.

DAVID: We don't start with the same basic premise. Your theist hat is skewed, and you don't realize it. For example I don't know why God made the whales but I can sure He did because of the obvious design planning that must be done to span each gap between the eight stages. You want organisms to be their own architects to jump to the next species. Your theory fits only minor adaptations in existing species.

The basic premise is that God exists and does what he wants to do. You go on to say your God designed the eight stages of whale and you don’t know why. I go on to say your God gave the whale the intelligence to adapt of its own accord to a new environment which would improve its way of life (possibly even to ensure its survival). You go on to say that your God’s prime purpose was to create Homo sapiens’ brain. I go on to say that doesn’t fit in with the higgledy-piggledy bush of evolution’s history. A free-for-all fits in perfectly (though he can still dabble if he wants to). I have agreed that we do not know if my hypothesis concerning the DEGREE of organismal intelligence is correct. Nor do we know if your hypothesis concerning a 3.8-billion-year computer programme for the whole of evolutionary history is correct. Same basic premise, different interpretation of how it applies to evolution.

DAVID: Either way, under your theory, God is in charge. don't you realize that?

Dhw: (Saturday 16 September at 13.03): If God exists, then of course he is in charge, and of course we agree that he used evolution, and of course we agree that evolution has resulted in a great big bush. Where we don’t agree is that God personally designed every twig of the bush although his prime purpose was to produce Homo sapiens and his brain. THAT is the theory you keep trying to consolidate, and in doing so find yourself shifting ground with every anomaly it throws up.
I stand by every word of my earlier post.