Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, April 19, 2021, 15:15 (1312 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The reason the brain complexifies is that it has extra neuron networks to work with....

dhw: Still totally ignoring the “response” evidence of how the brain works! The reason the brain complexifies, as we know from modern science, is that it has to adjust itself in order to meet new requirements.

Not ignoring, but different interpretation: the extra cells allow a greater degree of complexity by having more neurons to work with from the start.

DAVID: I view the brain much as we might consider material transport: a model T cannot carry the same load as an 18-wheeler. This is why I raised the point that the initial lifestyle requirements for early sapiens hardly differed from erectus.

dhw: We don’t need your truck image. You simply keep ignoring the point that all lifestyles prior to late sapiens were based mainly on survival...I gave you was: the hunter with a brand new spear is still a hunter.

I was only showing you complex use uses lots more brain than simpler use, a truism you constantly ignore.

dhw: Even with your own theory, why would your all-knowing, always-in-control God give us excess cells which turn out to be redundant? […]

DAVID: […] essential for what? We use our brain to live as best we can. We see the flow of hominin/homo lifestyle go from very simple to highly complex with each step of enlargement….

dhw: No we don’t. You’ve just said yourself that “the initial lifestyle requirements for early sapiens hardly differed from erectus”, and although undoubtedly the step from tree-dwelling to land-dwelling would have been a major development, the hunter with spear would have had the same lifestyle as the hunter without spear. I note your refusal to answer my question above.

The advantage of the extra cells I presented above, to allow the greatest degree of complexity to cover all new current needs as efficiently as possible.

DAVID…and we find a very high degree of complexity in our brain that has no resemblance to other primates. (Note bold above) Five tiers of frontal lobe neurons, probably evolved from hominin to now with a last very giant sapiens step.

dhw: Why do you keep repeating what we already know? The matter in dispute is how this very high degree evolved. You insist that your God kept operating on all the hominins and homos, enlarging their brains in anticipation of future needs, and in our case giving us excess cells we wouldn’t need in the future!

Because it is a matter of interpretation of what our brain contains: the special cortical organization of five neuron tiers is only ours and came by a recombination of an available extra number of neurons, by God's design.

dhw: […] apart from repeating your own preconceptions, you still haven’t given me one logical reason for rejecting this proposal.

DAVID: My rejection is based on your humanized view of what God might do. While you are theorizing you can make God into anything you wish. You never bring up my view of God.

dhw: I shan’t repeat the rest of the discussion, in which for the umpteenth time I summarized your own humanized view of God, whom you can “make into anything you wish”. It is covered again under “theodicy”, and it does not provide one single logical reason for rejecting my theory concerning the expansion and complexification of the brain!

I reject your interpretation primarily as an attempt to avoid God, but I show you a logical interpretation as to how the excess cells are used to create our very special brain. We do not know when this special arrangement of five tiers of neurons happened, but based on the evidence of how sapiens easily developed brain use and lifestyle, starting with language 70,000 years ago our brain is obviously very different I would then guess even from Neanderthal's bigger one. It is not size. It is complexity that makes the difference. Adler's point fits.